Author Topic: Our AH Spitfires...  (Read 1281 times)

Offline Guppy35

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 20387
Our AH Spitfires...
« Reply #15 on: September 07, 2004, 06:47:55 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Furball
why they decided to model our spit XIV with the version they did to be perked is beyond me.

should have given it bubble hood.





The teardrop canopied birds didn't show until roughly March of 45.  The mainstay 14s were the high backs starting with 610 and going from there.

That applies to the XVIs as well

Dan/Slack
Dan/CorkyJr
8th FS "Headhunters

Offline Nashwan

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1864
Our AH Spitfires...
« Reply #16 on: September 07, 2004, 06:58:26 PM »
Nice pics Furball.

I'm trying to find a couple of clear pics that show the radiator exits with flaps open and "closed".

Anyone got any suitable?

Thanks

Offline Guppy35

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 20387
Our AH Spitfires...
« Reply #17 on: September 07, 2004, 07:19:10 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Nashwan
Nice pics Furball.

I'm trying to find a couple of clear pics that show the radiator exits with flaps open and "closed".

Anyone got any suitable?

Thanks


From photos in the collection.  Open and closed views close up of a Spit XIV radiator.

Hope the angle works ok

Dan/Slack

Dan/CorkyJr
8th FS "Headhunters

Offline Squire

  • Aces High CM Staff (Retired)
  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7683
Our AH Spitfires...
« Reply #18 on: September 07, 2004, 07:41:46 PM »
According to this doc, there was little improvement for the XIV at 25 lbs boost.

http://www.fourthfightergroup.com/eagles/merlin66_18_25b.jpg

I think the version we have is plenty fast?
Warloc
Friday Squad Ops CM Team
1841 Squadron Fleet Air Arm
Aces High since Tour 24

Offline mw

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 160
Our AH Spitfires...
« Reply #19 on: September 07, 2004, 07:56:21 PM »
Hello Squire:  That document from 11 July 44 shows that +21 had been cleared but was not yet implemented at the operational level.  This page from No 610's ORB shows that their Spit XIV's were modified to +21 about a week later.  The improvement at +21 boost amounted to about 6 to 8 mph at SL. +25 boost on the other hand yielded much stronger performance, but operational documentation of its use falls into the 109K 1.98 fuzzy area ;)
« Last Edit: September 07, 2004, 08:04:14 PM by mw »

Offline Fruda

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1267
Our AH Spitfires...
« Reply #20 on: September 07, 2004, 08:07:23 PM »
Then, if the F4U-4C didn't see service in WWII, our F4U-4 shouldn't be perked.

Seriously, it out-performs the P-51D, but not enough to warrant a perk price.

And I think that the F4U-1C should have a default perk price of 5, since it's an F4U-1 with 4 20's (and a nicer cockpit).

Offline Fruda

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1267
Our AH Spitfires...
« Reply #21 on: September 07, 2004, 08:09:05 PM »
408mph at 4,000 feet with a +25 boost Mk XIV...

Now that's what I'm talking about!!!

Oh, and I like the Spitfire Mk III's superior performance with the Griffon III/IV @ 12lbs boost, compared to the Spitfire Mk IX's Merlin 66 @ 18lbs boost.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2004, 08:12:31 PM by Fruda »

Offline mw

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 160
Our AH Spitfires...
« Reply #22 on: September 07, 2004, 08:21:04 PM »
Hmm, on further review, RAE Tech Note No. Eng. 316. shows the following for a Spit XIV at 3,000 ft': +18 - 372, +21 - 393, +25 - 410. :)  Those higher boost speeds would have to be for a filled and polished aircraft ;)

Offline Urchin

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5517
Our AH Spitfires...
« Reply #23 on: September 07, 2004, 10:32:13 PM »
Fear not, I imagine that after HT fills in the PacWar planeset, and maybe the Russian early-war planeset, we'll get some new Spits.  

I do agree we need a higher performance Spit for the 1945 MA.. the Spit 14 would do the job nicely I think were it not perked.

Offline Furball

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 15781
Our AH Spitfires...
« Reply #24 on: September 08, 2004, 08:01:41 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Guppy35
The teardrop canopied birds didn't show until roughly March of 45.  The mainstay 14s were the high backs starting with 610 and going from there.

That applies to the XVIs as well

Dan/Slack


we have the 3 x B.20 option on lgay's, when did they enter service? (i know it was late, im not being a smartarse, just out of curiousity)
I am not ashamed to confess that I am ignorant of what I do not know.
-Cicero

-- The Blue Knights --

Offline Nashwan

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1864
Our AH Spitfires...
« Reply #25 on: September 08, 2004, 08:09:39 AM »
Quote
From photos in the collection. Open and closed views close up of a Spit XIV radiator.

Hope the angle works ok


Thanks Dan

The top one is close to perfect, because although it doesn't show the flaps closed, it's easy to see what they will look like closed.

Offline mw

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 160
Our AH Spitfires...
« Reply #26 on: September 08, 2004, 08:13:35 AM »
With regards to  Spitfire LF.IX low level speeds the following compilation is interesting:



Its quite informative, and rather amusing, to see how what the Air Ministry considered "Normal Maximum Speed"  compares against trials data. Reports posted in full at the Spitfire IX page.  See here and here for Air Ministry figures.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2004, 08:19:24 AM by mw »

Offline Crumpp

  • Parolee
  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3671
Our AH Spitfires...
« Reply #27 on: September 10, 2004, 09:37:53 PM »
I just did some calculations real quick on the Spitfire Mk Vc Merlin 45 (+16) vs Spitfire Mk IX Merlin 61 (+12).

I am not going to post the actual results because I am just "guesstimating" the engine outputs.

I have 1515hp at FTH for the Spit V at 13000 feet on (+16) boost.
For the Spit Mk IX Merlin 61 I used 1550 since 13000 feet is just below it's FTH.

If anyone has a Horsepower chart for both engines I will run some calculations for you guys.  

Basically my calculations show that for 3 minutes at a time the Spit V has less drag and better performance than the Spit IX.  The Spit IX though can maintain it's performance for 5 minutes instead of just 3.  

The Spit V has alot less weight than the Spit IX but less drag with roughly the same Thrust to Weight.  Their zoom climbs are probably very similar.  In the turn fight the Spit V would win.

However the correct power output could reveal a completely different outcome.

Anyway if you are interested in knowing let me know.

Crumpp

Offline Guppy35

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 20387
Our AH Spitfires...
« Reply #28 on: September 10, 2004, 10:36:15 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Furball
we have the 3 x B.20 option on lgay's, when did they enter service? (i know it was late, im not being a smartarse, just out of curiousity)


Stuff I have says the LA7s were in service in 1943.  An interesting comment by  Author Bill Gunston  "By late 1943 the LA7 was probably the best all around dogfighter in service in the world."

Dan/Slack
Dan/CorkyJr
8th FS "Headhunters

Offline MiloMorai

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6864
Our AH Spitfires...
« Reply #29 on: September 11, 2004, 12:47:56 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Guppy35
Stuff I have says the LA7s were in service in 1943.  An interesting comment by  Author Bill Gunston  "By late 1943 the LA7 was probably the best all around dogfighter in service in the world."

Dan/Slack



The development of the La-7 (design bureau designation La-120) did not start until the autumn of '43, with production starting in the spring of '44 at plants in Moscow and Yaroslavl. Service introduction was in the late spring and early summer of '44. The prototype did not fly until Nov. '44.

Among the first units to receive the La-7 was the 176th Guards IAP.