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Author Topic: Unleash the mossie  (Read 2349 times)

Offline Karnak

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Unleash the mossie
« Reply #45 on: September 10, 2004, 02:55:31 PM »
Thanks Scherf.

Sadly my German is no where near adequate to read a German newspaper, let along a history book.

I can probably do ok with the German eqivilent of Dick and Jane though.


GScholz,

Of course the 262 can catch Mossies.  Now if he was claiming Wellingtons as Mossies it would still pad his total.  I'm not saying he didn't kill Mossies at night, but 33 of them seems overly high.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2004, 02:58:04 PM by Karnak »
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Offline GScholz

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Unleash the mossie
« Reply #46 on: September 10, 2004, 03:02:44 PM »
Did the RAF fly Wellingtons in 1945?
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Offline MiloMorai

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« Reply #47 on: September 10, 2004, 03:05:01 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by GScholz
Did the RAF fly Wellingtons in 1945?


Yes
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Offline Scherf

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Hiya Karnak
« Reply #48 on: September 10, 2004, 04:33:18 PM »
As far as I know, the book will be English-Language, despite the title.

Cheers,

Scherf

PS - Do you know if there's a Mossie "skin template"? Depending on the software required, I could be convinced to get into skinning...
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... missions were to be met by the commitment of alerted swarms of fighters, composed of Me 109's and Fw 190's, that were strategically based to protect industrial installations. The inferior capabilities of these fighters against the Mosquitoes made this a hopeless and uneconomical effort. 1.JD KTB

Offline Karnak

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« Reply #49 on: September 10, 2004, 04:49:42 PM »
There is one being done as described in this thread:
http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=129576

It doesn't look like he has a template and his panel lines are excessive.  Not that I could do even that given my crap artistic skills.
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Offline DuBe

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Unleash the mossie
« Reply #50 on: September 12, 2004, 12:28:31 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by moot
those teeth striking out horizontal thru the lips, very sexy.
not to mention the large steep forehead.


Sounds like my ex-wife.


DuBe
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Offline Karnak

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« Reply #51 on: September 13, 2004, 12:47:27 PM »
GScholz,

Here are the figures for Mosquito bomber losses at night from May, 1943 to May, 1945.

With only 108 Mosquitos failing to return I am sceptical that one pilot accounted for 33 of them.

I am assuming that his 33 would have had to come out of the 108 and not the 88 that had to be written off as many LW fans have said that wreckage was required for a kill claim in Germany.
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Offline Furball

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« Reply #52 on: September 13, 2004, 01:41:04 PM »
WOW... thats 1 lost every 250 sorties or so...

I thought i read that the mossie had lowest loss rate of any allied combat aircraft.
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Offline Karnak

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« Reply #53 on: September 13, 2004, 02:00:07 PM »
Furball,

Here is a chart with Bomber Command losses for the Stirling, Blenheim, Ventura, Wellington, Boston, Halifax, Lancaster and Mosquito.


As you can see the Mosquito losses are dramatically lower than any other Bomber Command aircraft.
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Offline GScholz

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« Reply #54 on: September 13, 2004, 02:01:37 PM »
Bomber Command lost 533 Mosquitoes during the war. That number does not include the losses to Fighter Command and Costal Command Mossies.
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Offline Karnak

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« Reply #55 on: September 13, 2004, 02:14:34 PM »
Does your 533 number include aircraft written off due to battle damage and losses to accidents?

How about PR aircraft?
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Offline GScholz

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« Reply #56 on: September 13, 2004, 02:24:52 PM »
I don't know. This was the ONLY site I could find that listed Mossie losses:

http://www.jtennet.freeserve.co.uk/RAFBC.htm


I don't know what RAF Command operated the PR Mossies, I would guess Bomber Command.
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Offline Karnak

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« Reply #57 on: September 13, 2004, 02:30:41 PM »
Well, I wouldn't take the 533 number to all be due to enemy action.

The two tables I posted refer only to bomber operations and the first chart is specif to night operations from May, 1943 on.  Both of the tables I posted give numbers specific to those that failed to return.

EDIT:
Here is a photo of a Mosquito PR.Mk XVI that survived an encounter with an Me262:

And the text to go with it:
« Last Edit: September 13, 2004, 02:33:53 PM by Karnak »
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Offline GScholz

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« Reply #58 on: September 13, 2004, 02:34:01 PM »
Does it matter what mission they were on? A PR Mossie is just as valid a kill as a NF, B or FB.
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Offline Karnak

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« Reply #59 on: September 13, 2004, 02:55:55 PM »
No, it does not matter, but there were far fewer PR aircraft used.

The bigger problem is that the 533 number does not diferentiate how they were lost.

A Mosquito that returned to base and had to be written off does not count as a kill, but it does count as a loss.

Referencing the two tables I posted wee can see that:

In 26,939 sorties there were 88 Mosquito's written off after they returned.  In the same time there were 108 that failed to return.

In 39,795 sorties there were 254 that failed to return and that includes the 108 from the 26,939 nightime sorties.  So we know about 342 losses just from those totals.  In the 12,856 sortie difference there were surely some that also were written off after returning.  If the ratio was roughly the same that would be another 42 airframes for a total of 384.  Given that those 12,856 sorties were during daylight and the loss ratio on them was much higher it is probable that a likewise disproportionate number were damaged and had to be written off.  Then there are training accidents, PR aircraft that failed to return and PR aircraft that had to be written off after returning.

26,939 night sorties = 108 failed to return.  0.4% loss rate
12,856 daylight sorties = 146 failed to return. 1.14% loss rate

Some of those losses would also be due to flak and not fighters.
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