Before AH becomes Battlenet or Quake

[Grizzly]

Hiyas Mayhem  =o)

None of this is any of my business, and HTC can dismiss me like a bad case of gas, but Mayhem has a point.

Consider the wisdom of Blue Baron, Hitech, and let the players make the game. The more success indicators you add, the more incentive for some to game the game. Even a points system can be counter productive, albeit arguably necessary.

grizzly

[Lephturn]

WTG Pyro, glad to see you folks are seeing increased customers for all your hard work.

I think the Perk System is working out great.  When there are a few choice perk planes available, things should really get interesting.  This is one of the best ideas to hit the online flight-sim community in a long time IMHO.



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Lephturn - Chief Trainer
A member of The Flying Pigs  http://www.flyingpigs.com
 
"A pig is a jolly companion, Boar, sow, barrow, or gilt --
A pig is a pal, who'll boost your morale, Though mountains may topple and tilt.
When they've blackballed, bamboozled, and burned you, When they've turned on you, Tory and Whig,
Though you may be thrown over by Tabby and Rover, You'll never go wrong with a pig, a pig,
You'll never go wrong with a pig!" -- Thomas Pynchon, "Gravity's Rainbow"

[Dos Equis]

 

Originally posted by Grizzly:
Hiyas Mayhem  =o)

Consider the wisdom of Blue Baron, Hitech, and let the players make the game. The more success indicators you add, the more incentive for some to game the game. Even a points system can be counter productive, albeit arguably necessary.

grizzly

Can we have that little pincushion doll with the pins in it back in the tower? You know, the blue one?

I used that thing all the time.

X2

[Pongo]

Mayhem
Why do you think that the designers have time to reassess their vision with every windbag post and email they get pointing out how thats not how they should design the game? What entitles you or any of us to a justification and defence of every feature that they put in the game?
You imply that its just this one point. For you maybe. But lots of people here would be tying up these guys time with 60 page whines about thier ONE thing that they need justified and explained.
Even if your rant was worthwhile how can you expect more then just some space in Pyros cranium so maybe when he makes a decision down the line your point might perk to the top at 2 AM.
I think your complaint is silly and I think that the demanding way you present it is silly.  I sort of blurred over most of it. Did you present an alternative way to bring more powerful and unbalancing planes into the MA. I must have missed it in the insults crying and verbage.

[bowser]

"...whoooooaaaaaaaaa pyro, insulting yer customers is not her way to go,,,check yer 6 m8..."

Telling a customer to back up his "whining" with facts is not insulting him in my books.  He repudiated mayhems "facts", then suggested if he was so unhappy to not use the product anymore.  So?
I'm surprised HTC don't defend themselves from this garbage more often...but then I'd guess they would be on this BBS all day!  

bowser

[Pyro]

Well we do agree that it would be bad if AH became like it is over on B-Net or the Quake servers but I'm not sure we're necessarily talking about the same thing.  The problem I see there is the problem I want to avoid here.   While most people are there to play and have fun, there are plenty of people who are so devoid of any social conscience in the faceless anonymity of the internet that their whole kick is to try to incite, offend, and bar other players from enjoying themselves.  

We don't get a whole lot of that, but I do think we get parts of that, albeit often on an unintentional level.  AH is not meant to be played in a vacuum, it requires interaction with other players.  That interaction is supposed to be a positive but often it is a negative. When somebody is unhappy with us or the game, they usually want other people to be unhappy with them. I've heard from a number of people who've left the game or not subscribed because of the atmosphere and I'm sure there are many more who I don't hear from for every one that I do. That's why you don't see us begging people to stay or come back if we can't please them and they can't accept our reasons or just aren't interested in them.  We'd rather have the other people back or at least not add to that group.  We know we can't please everybody, but we do work hard to try to please most.  

I'm not trying to target you or slap a label on you, but you should know how we see things too.  In regards to the perk system, I can't tell you all the specifics because they're not known yet, but there's certainly been a lot of discussion on the pros and cons for most of last year.  How much will a perk plane cost?  It depends on the plane, the rate at which points are accumulated, and how often people want to see them be available.  The system is flexible and can accomplish a lot of good things for the gameplay.  How it's used will be tailored to what people like and don't it.  If we can't make it work, then we do something else.  People like to predict at the extreme ends even though things usually fall in the middle.  As amazing as it is, we're not out to try and ruin the game we've worked so hard to create.

BTW, you really were in the top 10% when I checked you.  Also, perk points don't reset with the tour.  And the perk value I was talking about for the F4U-1C was like a point or two. It doesn't matter to me which plane is the top killer, but a little semblance of balance among planes would be nice to most people.



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Doug "Pyro" Balmos
HiTech Creations

[PC]

Personally, I think the Perk is going to suck prettythang.

PC

[Robert]

It doesn't matter to me which plane is the top killer, but a little semblance of balance among planes would be nice to most people.

This is what i've been trying to say all along !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


RWY OUT !!!!
>

[Mayhem]

Thank you Pyro
Alot of my ranting comes from watching the Air warrior comunity degrade from alot of high quality gamers Down to a bunch of cussin dweebs. Don't get me wrong theres still alot of good people there but there the minority and the elite of Air warrior,  most of the best of air warrior and warbirds are here now.
Ive also seen the every one for himself attatude over at Warbirds, you add that into the snobish eletist (I can afford warbirds the masses can't) behavoir and it bacame unfun to play for the few hours a month you could afford to.

personally I wish perk points would either be embraced whole hardidly and promote team and group play or it fails misirably and every one hates it. The worse that can possibly happen is a 50/50 split then no matter what you do you piss off alot of people.

If I can fly a single mission and get enough perk points to fly my favorite rides I wount feel as bad.

As I said again most of ranting has been aimed at what Ive seen on Air warrior and warbirds and what ive seen in the AH MA since 105 came out. I think 105 is a great update and you have been hella fast at fixing bugs in it which suprised me. people seem to be getting more used to it now and hopefull things will be back to normal (probably all due to the shock of this massive of an update and all the new toys to play with).

If it keeps all the planes available to adverage user then great. If it promotes team play and group play then awsome. If it promotes the areana to lay some smack down on the counterproductive cussing point mongering "every man for himself" "I don't car" dweebs that aren't getting with the program then this is a plus to. I guess the only thing we can do now is wait and see what happens and how things turn out. BUT I swear! IF some dweeb brags about his points again and leave his countrymen to die and the quake heads take over Iam gunna steal you;re sheep give it to the night hawks and return the abused thing back to you right after I defile that little model plane on you're monitor next to the picture of your favorite ewe! <J>. (Actually I'll just leave WWII Mass Mutli-player flights simms and wait for some one Like AH, WB, AW, and WWIIOL to fix thiers before returning)

Iam sorry for the rants but you know where Iam coming from. I hope Iam absolutely wrong or you can fix it fast if Iam right. I like AH and I don't want to end up like EA's Air warrior or iEN's warbirds. Most of the people here in this game are the creme of the crop. people that give a dam about their comunity and rejected the other games for the same things I did, Reality Community and funn without foul mouthed dorks.
Again Thank you for your response and sorry for the rant.

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Mayhem 33rd S.G.
"Destination anywhere, so far gone, I'm already there!"

[This message has been edited by Mayhem (edited 01-08-2001).]

[-tronski-]

RPS for me...wid perk points to buy the magical, but hardly used A/C (Ta152 stuff etc)
That way we might get early war types...

-tronski-

[Pyro]

No harm, no foul.  I was there in the Genie days and could be much nastier than I would ever tolerate so I see it from both sides of the fence.  The only reason I'm in this job now is because of karma.



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Doug "Pyro" Balmos
HiTech Creations

[Zigrat]

i think perk system is a great idea

original, and makes balance, as well as rewarding pilots who dont fly the flavor of the month.

now pyro stop listening to these whines about perk system and go check out roll rate calculations

[bloom25]

If there is one thing I've learned during my time playing AH it's that the game is *always* going to change from month to month.  That's what keeps it fresh and new.  I think that if HTC finds the perk system does not work out, well then they will come up with something different.

Here's my take on the perk system:

Pros:
Improves arena balance by encouraging the use of more limited planes and limiting the number of other planes

Allows for the inclusion of planes and vehicles that could not be added with any other current system  (i.e. unbalancing)

Adds a possible sense of purpose to the MA.  Sure it's kind of gamey, but gaining points is a tried and tested way to add fun to a game

Provides a reward for more realistic flying.  (You earn more points if you land.  You also lose the perk plane/vehicle if you get killed in it.)

It is a totally new gameplay idea for online flightsims.

Does not prevent you from flying your plane of choice based solely on what day it is. (Not a RPS.)

Encourages the use of ACM, as opposed to point and spray with the 4 20mm birds.

Adds literally hundreds of plane/vehicle choices that would not otherwise be in the game.

Will probably cause some people to sign up for AH.

Cons:

Some people won't like the fact that they can't use a plane/vehicle as much as someone else, yet they pay the same per month.

Possible conflicts may result when a perk plane is shot down, or when you are killed by a perk ride.

Adds more to learn to a game with a very steep learning curve already.

Perk bombers will likely fly at stratosphere levels, virtually immune from interception.

Some perk rides may prevent a base capture all by themselves.

Might cause some people to leave AH.

Those are my opinions at least.  I guess the thing is that no matter what HTC does, someone will always oppose it.  Unlike most games though, HTC openly communicates with the vocal minority to discuss their concerns.

It's also important to remember that HTC is a business.  This means that they will make changes and improvements to the game that they feel benefits the majority of players.



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bloom25
THUNDERBIRDS