"Fighter Matching"

[1K3]

I hosted a(n) H2H fighter match between the LW and USAAF late war (teams).


excerpt from motd..

Plane sets:  Mass-produced, prop-driven late war fighters that served the LW and USAAF

(the list)
P-38L,'47Ds, '51s  vs  109Gs, 190As and  a D

...out of nowhere, someone asked if i (the host) can add the 109E (i know the E is out of place for a late war Fighter match), 109F, 190F, and even a 110G!

My question is, does 109F belong in late war LW-USAAF fighter match? Was '190F-8 and 110G used against the '38s, '47s, and '51s? And did the LW witdraw the 110G from service as a daylight fighter for the rest of '44-'45?

[Crumpp]

My question is, does 109F belong in late war LW-USAAF fighter match? Was '190F-8 and 110G used against the '38s, '47s, and '51s? And did the LW witdraw the 110G from service as a daylight fighter for the rest of '44-'45?

Only one that could belong in a late war dayfighter set-up as a Luftwaffe A/C is the 190F8.  It was the premier Luftwaffe Ground attack plane in 1944 and served as a replacement for the Stuka.

The 109F was phased out service by then and the 110G was serving as a nightfighter only by mid-1944.  Occasionally the 110G would be pressed into daylight bomber intercept missions but even that became rare as USAAF escort fighters ranged deeper into Germany.

Crumpp

[1K3]

Like the fighter / ground attack P-47s, did LW use the 190F-8 against the P-51s, '47s, '38s?

[Sable]

My understanding is the 190F and G variants saw action mostly on the Eastern front.  However some units may have employed these in the West or in Italy, I can't say for sure.  Some of the 8th and 15th AF P-51 units flew missions into Russia in 1944,and  keep in mind that in 1945 there wasn't much seperation between the east and west in the air - there were numerous cases where USAAF units encountered Russian fighters and so one would think that Luftwaffe units in the east probably encountered US fighters on a regular basis.

I agree with Crumpp's statements on the 109F and 110G.  The 109G6 was pretty much the standard 109 in 1943, so even the G2 probably wouldn't be seen.  Front line fighter units (of all nations) typically saw over 100% losses per year in terms of airframes, due not only to combat but also to accidents, and cannabalization for spares.

[Crumpp]

Like the fighter / ground attack P-47s, did LW use the 190F-8 against the P-51s, '47s, '38s?

No not unless they absolutely had too.  Some folks will tell you that late war 190F8's were the SAME as FW-190A8's.  If you remove the outboard MG151's from an FW-190A8 they are identical and it is virtually impossible to tell from a photo because externally they are the same.

Internally they were very different.  The FW-190F8 was equipped with "Grosse Bombenelektrik" bomb release system and, with the exception of the first few production variants,  a 115 liter internal auxiliary fuel tank.  The initial FW-190F8's equipped with the tank were designated FW-190F8/R1.  The emergency power system of the FW-190 jabo-rei used was extremely fuel hungry.  Since 60 percent of FW-190 production was going to produce ground attack versions the Focke-Wulf factory began to just ship out all the FW-190's with the removable fuel tank installed when the same emergency power system was approved for altitudes above 1 km.

The FW-190F8 also came equipped with a lot more armour to protect it during it's ground attack role.  The FW-190F8 was much heavier than the FW-190A8 jagd-einsatz or for that matter the jabo-einsatz.  

The Luftwaffe was caught without a replacement for the Stuka and the FW-190 was adopted to fill the role because of the amount of ordinance it could lift.

Consequently you will find FW-190A jabo-einsatz in the Jagdgeschwader's Jabostafflen and the FW-190F/G in the Schlachtgeschwaders, Stukageschwaders, and SchnellKampfgeschwaders (dedicated ground attack units).

The FW-190A jabo-einsatz's and the P47's are fighters, which can carry bombs fulfilling the ground attack role.  FW-190F8's are dedicated ground attack platforms that in a dire emergency can act as a fighter.

So, the P47 was a fighter pressed into service as a bomber but routinely flew pure fighter missions.  The FW-190F8 is a specialized ground attack aircraft, which in a dire emergency can put up somewhat of a fight.  You would never find an FW-190F8 flying a pure fighter mission.

Sure hope that helps and I haven't confused you.  

My understanding is the 190F and G variants saw action mostly on the Eastern front. However some units may have employed these in the West or in Italy, I can't say for sure.

Your absolutely right and obviously know your history.  The FW-190's on the Western Front were primarily air superiority fighter versions and made up the bulk of Kanalgeschwaders.  On the Eastern front the most numerous version of the FW-190 was the ground attack variants making up the SKG, SG, SchlG's.   I know the Med received a sprinkle of both based on the timeframe you reference.

Take Care!

Crumpp