Author Topic: Open Letter as sent to Hitech (from me, a Bishop)  (Read 4649 times)

Offline KurtVW

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 261
Open Letter as sent to Hitech (from me, a Bishop)
« on: September 07, 2004, 11:50:55 PM »
Quote
While what your asking for would be extreamly difficult to implement. One thing I had been thinking about over the week end is changing the hardness of all targets with the balance ratio.
And adjusting Ack lethality based on numbers.

HiTEch


You have a game which is balanced by the relative skills of the players.  You do not have a game which is hobbled my artifical 'skill levels' or anything of that nature.  You have created a pure skill online game.  As far as I know, you are the ONLY ONE.

If you continue to tinker to appease the minority you are going to destroy your game.  I am a programmer myself.  Not games I admit.  But one thing a programmer must learn is when to stop messing with the product.  Your's works fine.  You will never code it to the satisfaction of everyone and the minority will forever be the loudest voice.

If you must tinker, tinker game performance, not artificial whine reduction systems.  It turns out that some airplanes REALLY were better...  Some Pilots REALLY were better, and one side was always outnumbered.   That is the hard reality.  Whiners really need to get over it,,, Whiners are the minority.

Please, average the complainers against your player base... see what a small percentage they are..  Stop trying to code to the lowest common denominator.  We are in a skill based game, those without skill will never be happy.  You can't code skill for them.

If you code a game that favors the unskilled, the skilled will find a new sandbox.  And I'm sure you don't want that, you are gamers yourself.

Please step away from the keyboard.  Most of us love your product...  George Lucas thought he could make Star Wars better..  He was wrong,  Speilberg thought he could make E.T. better..He was wrong...  Don't follow that example.

You have the best online combat sim BAR NONE..  Just make it run better, make it look better.. But don't code it to try to think for the players, thats bad news... and its been proven over and over again in the online world.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2004, 11:53:18 PM by KurtVW »

Offline Fruda

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1267
Open Letter as sent to Hitech (from me, a Bishop)
« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2004, 12:14:34 AM »
Deleted for personal attack.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2004, 09:06:06 AM by hitech »

Offline jetb123

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1807
Open Letter as sent to Hitech (from me, a Bishop)
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2004, 12:14:47 AM »
Nice read Kurt

Offline ElGuapo1

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 150
      • http://www.yoursheephaverugburns
Open Letter as sent to Hitech (from me, a Bishop)
« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2004, 12:20:13 AM »
Kurt, I dont think anyone could have said it better.Hitech has allowed the the whines to control his product..A product that is fast becoming a sore to many longtime flight simmers such as myself.This Sim is a great product but is fast becoming a product that caters to the whiners.HT....be careful Sir...you are treading on thin ice..alot of longtime friends and Veteran Simmers are very displeased with your evolution of this product..New subscribers are not worth the masses that you are losing.Just my 2 cents and observations of the exodus occuring..<>

Offline peterg2

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 129
Re: Open Letter as sent to Hitech (from me, a Bishop)
« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2004, 12:21:06 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by KurtVW

You have the best online combat sim BAR NONE..  Just make it run better, make it look better.. But don't code it to try to think for the players, thats bad news... and its been proven over and over again in the online world.


I wholeheartedly agree!

I personally think that forcing people to even up sides is rediculous. With a multi team game, there will always be one side that will be outnumbered. And adjusting ENY and perk values does nothing to balance gameplay overall.

On any day or time, you can find at least one base that is being totally overrun by a horde of enemy. Do we try to balance that by not allowing vulching? How far do you go to try and balance play? Should play be balanced at all?

Maybe the beauty and success of AH1, was the total free-for-all aspect of the wars. It was up to the members to come together and figure out tactics and alliances. That was part of the fun of Aces High. It was truely "total war."

And, in any group situation, when under adverse and dire conditions, there is always a small percentage of people who will "rise to the challenge" and take control, in order to organize and mount defenses and counter attacks.

By imposing "play balancing," you take away incentive for organizational behaviors. Play balancing is essentially destroying the incentive to bring each team's community together to fight a common foe.

Offline Redd

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1316
Open Letter as sent to Hitech (from me, a Bishop)
« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2004, 12:23:19 AM »
Deleted
« Last Edit: September 08, 2004, 09:06:46 AM by hitech »
I come from a land downunder

Offline KurtVW

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 261
Open Letter as sent to Hitech (from me, a Bishop)
« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2004, 12:27:09 AM »
Wow, thanks for the resounding support guys!

I knew I thought it out well, but I'm surprised to see such energetic approval.

Thanks again.

Offline Zazen13

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3600
Open Letter as sent to Hitech (from me, a Bishop)
« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2004, 12:38:26 AM »
Very well put Kurt. Condescending to the lowest common denominator, or 'dumbing down' almost always equates to the sacrafice of overall product quality. Striking a balance betwen the attraction of new customers and the retention of the old ones is a precarious endeavor. My design philosophy  if I were in HT's postion would be twofold and can be expressed with two popular cliches:

1) KISS- (K)eep (I)t (S)imple (S)tupid

2) If it ain't broke don't 'fix' it!

You basically re-iterated what I said in another thread. You cannot hard-code solutions to basic human nature and the natural proclivities of the human animal. When you attempt to manipulate the complex human animal by using mathematical equations, formulae and code you get highly unpredicatable and often undesirable results. For a company like HTC which has their entire financial success or failure riding on this one single product, that is a very dangerous road to travel down.

Zazen
« Last Edit: September 08, 2004, 12:41:20 AM by Zazen13 »
Zazen PhD of Cherrypickology
Author of, "The Zen Art of Cherrypicking" and other related works.
Quote, "Cherrypicking is a state of mind & being, not only Art and Scienc

Offline MOIL

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1639
      • http://www.ltar.org
Open Letter as sent to Hitech (from me, a Bishop)
« Reply #8 on: September 08, 2004, 12:40:33 AM »
OMFG!!!!!

Another guy with a brain in his head!   woot!

The "make it run better"   "make it look better"   My favorite

Offline Soulyss

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6558
      • Aces High Events
Open Letter as sent to Hitech (from me, a Bishop)
« Reply #9 on: September 08, 2004, 12:42:31 AM »
The following isn't directed at you specifically, I've just read several posts that seem to be of the opinion that HT simply gave in to the horde whiners.  I think a little more credit is due than that.  I don't know what his thinking was, all I can do it try  and speculate what he's hoping the ENY system will accomplish.  But I would like to think that it wasn't a knee jerk reaction to pacify a vocal group of players harping one aspect of gameplay that they felt was wrong.  

If I were to be a bit bolder I would venture that it was the hope that no country would actually see the ENY limiter in place.  That people would sift and sort and the arena would find a natural balance.   Kinda like the idea in the cold war that the alternative to keeping things more or less under control was so horrible that peple were forced into line.  If anything I imagine he may have under estamated the rabid devotion people have developed towards a particular country.  Which franky I find silly and frustrating.  

I hope I'm making sense here, and in hind sight I'm not sure what I was trying to say here.  Please keep in mind these are the ramblings of a tired person.  I'm in no waying attempting to quote HT merely guess at what his thought process may have been.  :)
« Last Edit: September 08, 2004, 10:02:24 AM by Soulyss »
80th FS "Headhunters"
I blame mir.

Offline KurtVW

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 261
Open Letter as sent to Hitech (from me, a Bishop)
« Reply #10 on: September 08, 2004, 12:48:28 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Soulyss
That people would sift and sort and the arena would find a natural balance.


Actually, I didn't mind the ENY thing too much, its irratating, but not completely absurd...  After all, the Russians are well known for building hoards of inferior equipment sacraficing quality for quantity.  Thus they eventually lost the cold war just as they were finally starting to build some seriously capable equipment.  Turns out that their economy simply couldn't compete with the west in quality.

Absurd is buildings that get harder as a country gets weaker... I'm pretty sure that history teaches us that the opposite is true.

Anyhow, I quoted the one sentence of yours above because it is the key misconception...   You can't make a program force a 'Natural' balance.  Natural balance can only occur naturally..  But Zaz knows more about that then me, he's the follower of Zen.  :cool:

Offline 6GunUSMC

  • Parolee
  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 424
      • http://www.fasteasynet.com
Open Letter as sent to Hitech (from me, a Bishop)
« Reply #11 on: September 08, 2004, 12:58:15 AM »
Yeah trying to make the world a fair and equal place - albeit a lofty goal - is unrealistic and akin to breaking up pavement to build potholes in upper class neighborhoods - just to be fair.  Hitech has a good product here, but these measures are coing to encourage a stalemate instead of a checkmate scenario.  I say if one country has a 'horde' online then they are either lucky or have encouraged participation and as such they deserve to win.  If it were up to me and of course, it is NOT... There would be no ENY balancing, no 2.0 fuel burn multiplier and no welfare perk system.... but those are my personal tastes.  I am a trooper though, I don't have to have everything my way and I will continue to play this game until it either becomes unbearable, or something more suitable to my preferences comes along.

I may be in the minority here, but I just dont like all of the efforts to make everything 'fair' in online games (and elsewhere!).  I say if all sides are playing with the same gear, have the same rules and an opportunity to recruit.... the game is at that point fair and the stronger team will dominate.

To Hitech directly - HT, I have enjoyed this game very much and I for one hope the game will continue to improve and the community will grow larger.  While I may disagree with some of the specifics in the game I still believe it to be among the best out there.  Thanks to you and your staff all of the effort you have put in to keep the game fun and to build the community of pilots that keep the game interesting.

Thats my .02:aok

Offline Octavius

  • Skinner Team
  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6651
Open Letter as sent to Hitech (from me, a Bishop)
« Reply #12 on: September 08, 2004, 01:02:53 AM »
Sorry Kurt, I have to disagree.  Not the content, but how it was written.  I guess I'm a minority... I would take offense if I created my own game.  I read that and got the impression of orders being given.  There are too many other factors in this equation and I dont think it's possible to simplify it as much as you did.  If what you mention were the ONLY issues, then sure, by your logic it has the potential to make sense.  I dunno, something about it irks me.  but thats me


Moil:  Since when did this become an either/or deal?  You of all people should know the performance/looks of the game is continually changing and seeing renovation/improvement.  I never once thought there was a tradeoff in the whineability vs. playability realm.
octavius
Fat Drunk BasTards (forum)

"bastard coated bastards with bastard filling?  delicious!"
Guest of the ++Blue Knights++[/size]

Offline jetb123

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1807
Open Letter as sent to Hitech (from me, a Bishop)
« Reply #13 on: September 08, 2004, 01:09:24 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by MOIL
OMFG!!!!!

Another guy with a brain in his head!   woot!

The "make it run better"   "make it look better"   My favorite
:lol

Offline jodgi

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 696
      • http://forum.mercair.net
Open Letter as sent to Hitech (from me, a Bishop)
« Reply #14 on: September 08, 2004, 01:23:29 AM »
And Kurt,

I never saw HT say anything that made me think that he's trying to "help" the "skilless".

The way I perceive it, he's trying to find a way to balance the teams so that as many players as possible can enjoy the game as much as possible.

Severe numbers imbalance seem to hurt the game for many players (not only a minority), HTC is trying to fix something that is broken.