Open Letter as sent to Hitech (from me, a Bishop)

[Zazen13]

Originally posted by Chortle
Anyway, my advice is give it time. The fact that bish/nits are not showing up on Sundays to be willing targets is to me the most damning example of un-even sides ruining peoples fun. If nothing were changed, maybe these same bish/nits would eventually cancel their accounts. That cant be good.

If they 'showed up' on Sundays like they did the other 6 nights of the week. There would not BE uneven sides...That's the entire point...

Zazen

[Zazen13]

Originally posted by Chortle

Those of us without Zen like inner calm are likely to interpret this post simply as HTC are idiots.

If that is the implication anyone is getting I apologize. I never intended to insinuate that HiTech or anyone else at HTC are idiots. I pay $30 a month for this product and for the most part love it immensely, so much so that I consistantly spend the vast majority of my disposable free-time enjoying it. Aces High is HiTech's brain child. If I thought he or anyone else at HTC was an idiot, I would be a bigger idiot for sending them my money.

It is because I love this genre and this product so much that I care enough to take the time to post the way I do. I don't just come up with crap off the top of my head, this should be obvious. I expend alot of time and energy really, honestly thinking about how Aces High could improve and evaluating the complex ramifications of any design/gameplay changes made. It is only after much contemplation do I articulate my thoughts, ideas and concerns on these boards. I don't do it for some hidden agenda, I do it out of respect and admiration for HTC, Aces High, and the community I have come to love and be an integral part of over many years.

Zazen

[hitech]

KrutVW: Your premiss is correct that AH is all about skill. But your conclusions are out in left field.

The ENY system does exactly the oposit of what you claim. It makes AH a game of skill.  Skill is the ablity to win on an equal footing. How much skill is it to win when you have more players?

The ENY system makes the playing field level for game play items that are  completely out of the smaller countries control. If a country has overwhellming numbers there is no amout of skill that the small country can counter with.


Ghostdance: You are correct you can not change peoples behavior, but you can deffinatly change the outcome of that behavior.

As an example some people always want and edge when fighting. This is a behavior you can not change. What you can change is how that behavior effects things. I.E. Instead of making it an advantge flying with the biggest numbers, you make it an advantge ot fly with the lesser side. This than creates a force which will tend to balance things out. Note I didn't change anyone, just the outcome.


People have so many alternatives to make this a better game. But instead of realy thinking about what will make it more fun for everyone, they tend to just want there little piece of the pie. This desire for there little piece tends to be what we call "Whinning".

Has anyone here ever put forth an argument that unequal numbers in the arena is a good thing? I could be mistaken but I do not belive that is the case. Please take a step back an look at the bigger picture. If people had been doing more of this, there would have been no need to implement the ENY. If they step back they would relise, having unbalanced sides is realy not that much fun anyone.

Some post never siece to amaze me at the length people will go to support a position. The premiss of KurtVWs argument is that having unbalanced sides is realy all about increasing a pure "Skill" game. Does anyone else besides me see the absurdity of that arguement.

People have choices to make things more fun for everyone.

1. Squads could choose a different night to fly.
2. Squads could talk to  squads in the smaller country to get them to fly the same night as they did.
3. They could change countries.
4. They could view things as a challange to win with lesser aircraft.

Wouldn't life be great if people started to try make things better instead spending there time thinking about new arguements to suport there view point that realy does tend to be unjustified?

Because to date almost all post on this subject can be sumbed up.
"I want to fly my plane, for my country any time I feel like it" with out the least thought as to how that effects things.

HiTech

[Redd]

Originally posted by peterg2
Kurt is just stating the facts as he sees it. Just about everyone on this thread agrees with those facts.

How you read "condescending... I know your business better than you" from the original post is your added interpretation. The author of the original post did not write any of those words.

well enough people think it comes across that way - so  it  there's a fair chance it does.  He may not have meant to come across like that, but he does. .

Telling HT to "step away from the keyboard " and " " stop tinkering" as examples of words used relay a certain attitude.


The whole thing is another  ENY whine   of which their are plenty of threads already to choose from.


read it again




Entry:     tinker
Function:     verb
Definition:     fiddle
Synonyms:     boggle, dabble, doodle, fix, mess, mess about, mess with, monkey, monkey with, muck about, niggle, play, play with, potchky, potter, puddle, putter, repair, take apart, toy, trifle with
Source:     Roget's New Millennium™ Thesaurus, First Edition (v 1.0.5)
Copyright © 2004 by Lexico Publishing Group, LLC. All rights reserved

[JoeBWan17]

Originally posted by hitech


Because to date almost all post on this subject can be sumbed up.
"I want to fly my plane, for my country any time I feel like it" with out the least thought as to how that effects things.

HiTech

I couldn't agree more.

[mechanic]

what the hell is going on here?

we bickering amounst ourselves already?

Kurt had a good point, if a little rudely stated

im sure Zazen did too, had i been bothered to read it..

HTC are doing fine

some guys deffend HTC, some attack them.

its all the same to me.

we all keep playing.

Great game, could be improved.

I do agree that the whines R' us crew shouldnt be considered the majority of participants.

HTC: time for a few ritual beheadings to set an example, then you shall have the people back under control



Batfink

[Zazen13]

Originally posted by hitech
Has anyone here ever put forth an argument that unequal numbers in the arena is a good thing? I could be mistaken but I do not belive that is the case. Please take a step back an look at the bigger picture. If people had been doing more of this, there would have been no need to implement the ENY. If they step back they would relise, having unbalanced sides is realy not that much fun anyone.

Actually HiTech, myself and most others actually enjoy being outnumbered. I wouldn't leave my squadron or my friends to enjoy the outnumbered situation (I do however switch to KNights when they are outnumbered using my wife's account to enjoy the situation). But, from a fighter pilot's point of view, being outnumbered is the 'ideal' situation in terms of the most action/fun per unit time. I usually do not fly a fighter on Sundays because it isn't fun. It takes twice as long to get kills and the kills you get are of 'low quality'. It is this very fact I cited as an example in my "Nature" essay above. Having numbers does not equate to 'more fun' nor does having less numbers equate to having 'less fun'. Certainly more numbers aids in your country's potential to reset the map, but that in and of itself is not necessarily fun.

You have said several times that the most fun for the most people is your goal. I think the fundamental error in your premise is that this requires equal numbers on all sides virtually all the time (except when MA pop. is less than 140). That is just not the case. Sometimes having numbers is fun, usually being moderately outnumbered is more fun, variety and unpredicatablity is always fun.

Zazen

[hitech]

usually being moderately outnumbered is more fun

Eny dosn't kick in until things are more than moderately out of balance, and you also say sundays are not fun. But if you note sunday is what started the current rash of discusions. The points at which it kicks in can be easly adjusted. So what is your definition of "Moderately".


HiTech

[SlapShot]

Actually HiTech, myself and most others actually enjoy being outnumbered.

Thats a stretch saying "most", but for those that can deal with being outnumbered ... it eventually reaches a point of diminishing returns, and for the most part, it reached that point on a continual basis for some.

But, from a fighter pilot's point of view, being outnumbered is the 'ideal' situation in terms of the most action/fun per unit time.

Yes .. and then it reaches a point of diminishing returns and for the most part, it reached that point on a continual basis for some.

Having numbers does not equate to 'more fun' nor does having less numbers equate to having 'less fun'. Certainly more numbers aids in your country's potential to reset the map, but that in and of itself is not necessarily fun.

Having numbers DOES equate to "more fun" by the majority of the MA population. Most hide amongst and in the mass of the horde picking off those who are engaged in a 5 v 1 or greater and relish in their glory of a kill well earned.

Having less numbers and being overwhelmed DOES equate to having "less fun", even for those that do like to take on multiple bandits, but then it reaches a point of diminishing returns and the fun is gone.

Certainly more numbers aids in your country's potential to reset the map, but that in and of itself is not necessarily fun.

It is for the majority of the MA population. Winning the reset is the ultimate goal ... it's what they live for ... the holy grail of 25 perks.

[hogenbor]

Has there already been a squad naming themselves : 'Whiners 'r us'?

If not it would be a DAMN good idea. And please turn killshooter off, for that one particular squad. As they will never agree with one another they can fight it out between themselves. Would be fun.

[phookat]

Originally posted by KurtVW
Whiners really need to get over it,,,

Your post was also a whine.  Speaking of "getting over it"...

Originally posted by KurtVW
We are in a skill based game, those without skill will never be happy.  You can't code skill for them.

This change is about numbers, not skill.

[peterg2]

Originally posted by hitech
If a country has overwhellming numbers there is no amout of skill that the small country can counter with.

Sounds like you just shot yourself in the foot. The Rooks will still win with overwhellming numbers of p47s.

Maybe the solution is the simple one used in H2H games.

"Hey, would 3 of you guys switch to even up the sides!"

(Boing to the forehead!)

Just have a programmed announcement. "Hey, would x number of guys please switch to y team!" Seems simple enough to me.

One line of text characters in RED popping up in the chat window would do it.

[DoctorYO]

Zazen, I must admit to having a grudging respect for you but replies like that dont do you any favours. You seem to relish in the English language yet make clearly antagonistic remarks directed at HT, in support of whatever point your making at the time.

Zazen is a paying customer like myself, ghostH and many many others..

In fact look at the dates registered we have been paying for a long time..  and yet people with 3 months onboard are yapping to us to say nothing..What we are not allowed to disagree with where the game is going.. (I like the perk system, if you refine it; it will work..see below**)

If I received feedback as a business owner whether good or bad i would appreciate it.. Some companies even pay other companies to get the info HTC gets for near nothing on these boards..  count your blessings..

so minor dissent or antagonism should not be censored.. (as long as its not malicious)(like the good ole days when someone {I think pongo if incorrect sorry pongo..} tore HT a new one ingame with foul words etc.. "your game sucks bleep bleep you bleeping suck " I made the fatal mistake of typing over channel 1 at the time "yak pilot fight dont hide in your ack.."  HT most likely pissed from the other guys comments then snapped at me..forget exact words but it was good though.. I think to myself oh boo hoo..  some people are more hard shelled than others but hey life goes on..

Now back on topic after brief history lesson..

This game is great..  Some people want it to stay great or even improve...

Dont take someones minor dissent as the apocolypse..  Thats is all.....



DoctorYo




**  Docs advice..   Reset perks every month (possibly carry over 5-10 perks if the whine is unbearable but my suggestion is a fresh start put them at zero every month..)

The purpose of perks was to balance the game.  At least thats what it was originally.. use the system..  its still not being used to its potential..

perk all late war monsters..  maybe 1pt each this is where the refinement comes in.. BB poll or ingame poll..  Rock the vote.. let your customers decide.. what the planes should cost.. if anything..  I mean 1 perk is freaking nothing..  Refinement thru imput from your customers is key here..

Use the current variable system with unblancing numbers going up the cost goes up.. this is a good system just not refined.. yet...  

This way people have choice as opposed to blacking out planes..  yeah you can fly it but you have to pay, some more than others..  dont  like your costs goto another country..

no one wants their early-war/ early-midwar planes as unflyable so never do it..(never make any aircraft unflyable unless la7 factory is implemented etc..)  Just make them cost more (at least the really good midwar planes and there are some; exp Spit9)  if the one side gets the horde..

(though some planes should never have cost..) again poll it let your customers decide.. and post the votes for all to see...

Things like 163 comet (originally designed to stop hq raids should be exempted from excessive costs..)  In fact you should have a hard cap on each plane that is perked so that inflation (unbalancing) doesn't not price out a team from of basic concepts of the game such as HQ defense... bombing.. etc.. Imo the p38 (just a exp many others though) should not be perked into unflyable costs.. but hey thats my opinion.  lets vote on it.. others may feel different..

yourve already programed eny and perks into the game why not use what you got instead of recreating a new system.. (from programmers standpoint..) again IMO..

BTW

get in the game more.. like the good ole days..  if people are mad with you they can just shoot you down... over and over and over again..  you used to fly that silly f4u Bring it on.. and no psuedo tags we want "you have shot down Hitech.." insert superfly..  pyro..  yankee ronni.. etc..

this game is missing the fun from beta to 1-2 years of play.. Bring back the original Ogre Map..  no running on that map.. the mt everest between countires wouldn't allow it..

when was the last time HT got vulched.. shot down etc.. thats what im talking about..

Bring fun back to HTC.. get involved..

[Rolex]

I changed to Rooks when they were in the midst their darkest, overwhelmed hour because it didn't seem fair. It made me a better pilot.

I changed from Rooks to Knights about a week before Hitech brought up the idea of the current system because it didn't seem fair. I have to think my way around to survive Rook Sundays.

I go to the side with the least numbers if I go to the CT, because it only seems fair.

I don't have any issues at all with the current ENY system. I still shoot down others and make mistakes that get me shot down in return.

The problem is not the game; the problem is selfishness and the decline of sportsmanship.

Hitech and the HTC staff are not responsible for those who think that a fair baseball game is one where their team can have 12 players on the field and have all the best equipment. The other teams (of 9 players) have to just suck it up and play better.

Games have rules, and sometimes referees or judges, to keep the game fair. Even 12 year-olds in a game of backyard touch football will make up fair teams before the game.

We have adults here trying to justify a game where their team gets to have more players on the field (with all the same conditions) so they can run over everyone else like a mob.

Their own kids wouldn't play a touch football game like that.

[Zazen13]

Originally posted by hitech
Eny dosn't kick in until things are more than moderately out of balance, and you also say sundays are not fun. But if you note sunday is what started the current rash of discusions. The points at which it kicks in can be easly adjusted. So what is your definition of "Moderately".


HiTech

That is the problem and one of the major flaws with your ENY system. Raw country numbers cannot tell you what the actual situation in the air is. How the forces are arrayed is more of a determining factor as to how moderately outnumbered a particular team is or not. For example, just because Bishops have 50 more players than either Knights or Rooks does not mean both the Knights and Rooks are in fact outnumbered. The Knights and Rooks may only be devoting a relatively small fraction of their forces to fight one another, the vast majority are opposing the Bishops. Therefore, on paper, the Knights and Rooks appear to be moderately outnumbered, but in fact it is the Bishops that are outnumbered. If the Bishops were to send their 50 surplus players to Knights and Rooks as your system is designed to 'encourage' them to do and the Knights and Rooks did not alter their relative disposition of forces the country numbers would be equal on paper. But, the Bishops would then be vastly outnumbered instead of just moderately so on two fronts and get hammered accordingly. This scenario occurs quite frequently in the MA.

The frustrating part of the ENY system for everyone is that the players, the Bishops, in my above example, know they are actually moderately outnumbered, cannot and do not switch sides in light of this fact, but are heavily penalized and fighting against odds as dictated by your ENY penalty system, also facing cheap perk planes in the process. It is this typical scenario that is the rule, not the exception in the MA, and the core reason there is so much angst about the ENY system in its current incarnation. It is my opinion that the ENY system is far too simplistic to do what you intend it to do. It does not take into account the more salient factors that weigh heavily in the determination of 'fun' as it relates to numerical balance. A simple comparison of the total populations of each country is entirely too narrow a measurement to actually determine who is outnumbered or not and to what extent, in actual fact.

Zazen