The French Gov't caught red-handed

[Ripsnort]

This is just the first of 3 articles covering this era. Whats even more disturbing is that one of those new French Rolands actually shot down an American plane.

If you want to read the whole series, I've supplied the originating newspaper.

Washington Times
September 8, 2004
Pg. 1

French Connection Armed Saddam

Aid continued until eve of war

By Bill Gertz, The Washington Times

The United States stood by for years as supposed allies helped its enemies obtain the world's most dangerous weapons, reveals Bill Gertz, defense and national security reporter for The Washington Times, in the new book "Treachery" (Crown Forum). In this excerpt, he details France's persistence in arming Saddam Hussein.

First of three excerpts

New intelligence revealing how long France continued to supply and arm Saddam Hussein's regime infuriated U.S. officials as the nation prepared for military action against Iraq.

The intelligence reports showing French assistance to Saddam ongoing in the late winter of 2002 helped explain why France refused to deal harshly with Iraq and blocked U.S. moves at the United Nations.

"No wonder the French are opposing us," one U.S. intelligence official remarked after illegal sales to Iraq of military and dual-use parts, originating in France, were discovered early last year before the war began.

That official was careful to stipulate that intelligence reports did not indicate whether the French government had sanctioned or knew about the parts transfers. The French company at the beginning of the pipeline remained unidentified in the reports.

France's government tightly controls its aerospace and defense firms, however, so it would be difficult to believe that the illegal transfers of equipment parts took place without the knowledge of at least some government officials.

Iraq's Mirage F-1 fighter jets were made by France's Dassault Aviation. Its Gazelle attack helicopters were made by Aerospatiale, which became part of a consortium of European defense companies.

"It is well-known that the Iraqis use front companies to try to obtain a number of prohibited items," a senior Bush administration official said before the war, refusing to discuss Iraq's purchase of French warplane and helicopter parts.

The State Department confirmed intelligence indicating the French had given support to Iraq's military....

[Ripsnort]

One question that begs to be asked is...how much is the French Gov't helping arm insurgents via 3rd parties like Syria, Iran, etc.?

[TheDudeDVant]

What a load of hypocrisy........

[-MZ-]

Washington Times Staff Meeting:

[Ripsnort]

1k0N, post your lead post from the other thread here, I liked your comments, food for thought.

[cpxxx]

The Mirages and the Rolands and the Gazelles were in service in the eighties. This helped perpetuate the myth that the west supplied most of Iraq's arms.  It's highly unlikely that France was helping Iraq officially since then. They after all fought Iraq in the first Gulf war.  Undoubtedly some smuggling of weapons did occur.  

In fact the overwhelming majority of Iraqi equipment is and remains Russian. The insurgents use Russian weapons.  Virtually every terrorist movement uses Russian weapons.  

The proliferation of Russian equipment and missiles is the real problem not France.

[Bodhi]

Originally posted by cpxxx
The Mirages and the Rolands and the Gazelles were in service in the eighties. This helped perpetuate the myth that the west supplied most of Iraq's arms.  It's highly unlikely that France was helping Iraq officially since then. They after all fought Iraq in the first Gulf war.  Undoubtedly some smuggling of weapons did occur.  

In fact the overwhelming majority of Iraqi equipment is and remains Russian. The insurgents use Russian weapons.  Virtually every terrorist movement uses Russian weapons.  

The proliferation of Russian equipment and missiles is the real problem not France.

I have seen pictures of late technology Rolands that were destroyed in Iraq.  Those vehicles were built as late a 96...

So much for the late 80's theory, eh?

[-MZ-]

Originally posted by GScholz
Nice slander. I don't see any facts at all in that article, only biased presumptions and speculations. Of course, in this day and age that's enough to start wars.

I didn't read the whole thing, but that excerpt relies entirely on one anonymous source.  Some people are easy to convince if a story fits their preconceived notions.

[Ripsnort]

Originally posted by -MZ-
I didn't read the whole thing, but that excerpt relies entirely on one anonymous source.  Some people are easy to convince if a story fits their preconceived notions.

or if they're in denial of the facts....

[SLO]

Originally posted by cpxxx
In fact the overwhelming majority of Iraqi equipment is and remains Russian. The insurgents use Russian weapons.  Virtually every terrorist movement uses Russian weapons.  

The proliferation of Russian equipment and missiles is the real problem not France.

Christ, the Irish make Geniuses.

Rip, stop fishing you 8 ball.

[Ripsnort]

Originally posted by SLO
Christ, the Irish make Geniuses.

Rip, stop fishing you 8 ball.

^^Not my quote, just my data.  Fishing? When I don't post facts and data, thats fishing.

[B17Skull12]

the world revolves around ecnomy.  this helps french ecnomy.  i think.

[ASTAC]

Originally posted by B17Skull12
the world revolves around ecnomy.  this helps french ecnomy.  i think.

I can remember from the 1st gulf war this becoming an issue. Right up to the war the french firms were still selling repair parts to iraq for the french made equipment. They were supposed to be a part of the coalition back then. That kind of stuff is a stab in the back from a supposed ally.

Granted we have done our fair share of shady weapons sales...but ours were to meet policy goals..not for profit..IE selling arms to one group financed support of another in the name of freedom and the war on the spread of communism. Was it right probrably not..but we never sold weapons to someone our allies were fighting.

[demaw1]

I think...you think...we all think...what do we think?

[IK0N]

How can the UN be of any use when its members conspire against one another..  
 Missles have serial numbers, these numbers are tracked in inventory, when purchased the buyer is linked to the serial number.... Perfect solution is to ask the french weapon maker for a tracking record for the serial numbers we captured. They either comply or don't problem solved either way!
 I have seen French accounting practices in action, they count nuts and bolts just like anyone does they know who bought which products... They havent figured out the rounding/spreadsheet issue on exchange rates but few million either way it may balance in a few years if they are lucky...But they seem to track inventories well....
 
I am more pissed off over the Putin speech and our state department interfering with russian affairs, Putin seems like a standup guy and has enough problems without some Black tie US politician fondling a Chechen wannabe rep behind Putins back.
 Disgusts me...

IKON