Author Topic: simmer/gamer...community  (Read 3015 times)

Offline airbumba

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simmer/gamer...community
« on: September 09, 2004, 08:43:45 PM »
Gamer or Simmer

I watched a show on PBS the other night about the evolution of the video game, it was a good show, but it might have just answered a few lingering questions I’ve had about Aces High it’s community and the ever present ‘two camps’ syndrome which seems to prevail every topic raised. I do not and will not pretend for a second to speak about the community as a whole or even two majorities, it’s an individually based dynamic entity constantly evolving, and answers to it’s ailments will be just as fluid.
 
After seeing that show, I’ve come to the conclusion that the community is loosely split between gamers and simmers, as mentioned before on this BBS. I understand more about the ‘gamer’ after watching that show. Some observations,  the gamer is always in charge, if not in control, of the situation. Most gamers play roles where they are not themselves, whether through ‘god’ type games, or ‘rpg’ games. The purpose of many ‘games’, is escape from reality, or fantasy, by immersing yourself in a world full of situations where you can act any way you wish, because you are not playing as yourself. In fact it would be impossible to act as yourself in many ‘rpg’s, since staying ‘in character’ is what it’s all about.

The simmer, ‘flight simmer’ in this case would rather be in control of the situation than in charge of the game. Simmers play as themselves, by this I don’t mean they put their Soc. Sec.# as their CPID, I mean they are playing as they, themselves, would handle the situation in RL. Control of the aircraft is before gaming the game. Simmers are less inclined to be the crowd rushing off to buy the biggest machines, because graphics were just an added bonus to the early Flight Simms, and they ran on miniscule machines.

What’s this got to do with anyone here, well a few things..

(a)when an old MS Flight Simmer like myself sees all the people shooting down folks who say they can’t afford upgrading, I get confused? We’re not ‘gamers’, for many of us, the only game we play is a flight sim, (that’s my case anyway) so constant upgrading is new to us. Again just a misunderstanding between two worlds, the gamer and simmer.

(b)When a person comes from the ‘rpg’ gaming world , where they’ve never played as themselves and therefore their only community involvement has been anonymous, they might feel as if they can get away with acting in a different manner, then they would in RL, as themselves. This would make it very difficult to form a sense of community.

(c)Finally I want to mention the aviation community. Firstly and foremost, that is the category most of us fit in. We all love airplanes. We wish we could swan about poking the clouds and buzzing the fields. Even for those of us who do fly in RL, we can’t do what we can in a simm. Ultimately the respect I hope returns to this community, can , and will only return when gamers and simmers alike aspire to show the aviation community the respect it deserves

So what to do?
 Next time think before you speak.
 I find it a bit odd that the same guy that has a touching saying in his signature showing respect for a WW2 pilot, turns around and spews vile trashtalk at another guy with a similar sig, in a game that is supposed to be a kind of testimonial to our lasting respect of all WW2 pilots.

 Before you start ranting and flaming someone, think first, maybe that person just finished spending 50 hours on the making of that last scenario you enjoyed so much.

Be a good sport. Maybe that guy you just flamed for shooting you down was enjoying a quiet fun moment in an otherwise very difficult day. Don’t wait to find out the same guy has a sick kid in a hospital somewhere to say your sorry, don’t say it in the first place.

I'm not perfect, lol, by no means, I don't flame anyone , but I can ramble on range, or type to much, I'll fix that.

Well that’s about enough of your time, thanks for listening and I look forward to watching as the good folk in this community take it back.

CYA up there.
I used to be a fatalist,
but that part of me died.

Offline ASTAC

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« Reply #1 on: September 09, 2004, 08:47:17 PM »
Great Post

My 2 cents....The Gamers have taken over and trying to turn a good sim into a game.
That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety

Offline Horn

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« Reply #2 on: September 09, 2004, 08:57:24 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by ASTAC
The Gamers have taken over and trying to turn a good sim into a game.


or perhaps gamers mature into simmers....

Offline ra

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« Reply #3 on: September 09, 2004, 09:04:07 PM »
It's much easier to game a war than to sim a war.  War requires people to give and follow orders, and to risk their lives.  No amount of sim design will change the fact that gamers are more suited to the reality of sims/games.  AH has the flexibility to accomodate simmers through scenarios and special events, but most people have limited time and go for the quick adrenalin rush of gamey flying.  The problem is not with sim/game designers, but with the gaming/simming public.

ra

Offline FiLtH

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« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2004, 09:07:47 PM »
I guess you can look at it from a few different angles.

I see it like this....

1>Gamer-  Someone who will do with less eye candy, and will not hold the designer to the letter on all the mundane stuff, such as the paint scheme on that PZIV is a shade too light, or the plane has less Hp than it should at 20000ft.

      As long as there is a structure to the game, that makes for a variety of ways to play it, full of strategy, and options that make the game deep.
 
   (Last seen at a football game)


2>Simmer- Someone who demands all the mundane details, and sacrifice gameplay just so they can feel they are the ww2 pilot, not some guy playing a game.  WW2OL is a good example...a complete bakery, minus the oven.

  (Last seen sorting his socks)

~AoM~

Offline Redd

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« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2004, 09:09:04 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by ASTAC
Great Post

My 2 cents....The Gamers have taken over and trying to turn a good sim into a game.



I agree , a gamer wants to win at all cost,  always fly the best plane now, must win, must score points !

That's part of the reason they hate the ENY thing - it  might reduce their chance of winning the "game" and scoring points, or whatever it is they hold dear.

A simmer would love the fight/flight wouldn't he , and fly whatever plane was available at the time.


That's what you were thinking wasn't it
I come from a land downunder

Offline ASTAC

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« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2004, 09:17:33 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Redd
I agree , a gamer wants to win at all cost,  always fly the best plane now, must win, must score points !

That's part of the reason they hate the ENY thing - it  might reduce their chance of winning the "game" and scoring points, or whatever it is they hold dear.

A simmer would love the fight/flight wouldn't he , and fly whatever plane was available at the time.


That's what you were thinking wasn't it


Well I still wanna fly my favorite plane, but yes
That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety

Offline airbumba

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« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2004, 09:32:14 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by FiLtH
I guess you can look at it from a few different angles.

I see it like this....

1>Gamer-  Someone who will do with less eye candy, and will not hold the designer to the letter on all the mundane stuff, such as the paint scheme on that PZIV is a shade too light, or the plane has less Hp than it should at 20000ft.

      As long as there is a structure to the game, that makes for a variety of ways to play it, full of strategy, and options that make the game deep.
 
   (Last seen at a football game)


2>Simmer- Someone who demands all the mundane details, and sacrifice gameplay just so they can feel they are the ww2 pilot, not some guy playing a game.  WW2OL is a good example...a complete bakery, minus the oven.

  (Last seen sorting his socks)


Without disrespcting your view Filth, I see it as the opposite. When I first flew MS Flight sim, it was so I could take the 172 into vfr , and bad weather conditions, the only graphics that worked for me was the dash, gauges. I was after controlling the situation, and not the 'game'.
But I kinda cross over to what your saying about simmers and details. Yes , if the details are a necessary tool in controlling the situation, but I don't think a true simm needs the graphics to fulfill that. But I must admit, the way you put it, kinda makes it seem that the line between the two is really , really fine.

p.s: You didn't get ALL your socks back, did you? You must be missing one at least?  ;)
I used to be a fatalist,
but that part of me died.

Offline airbumba

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« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2004, 09:40:16 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by ra
It's much easier to game a war than to sim a war.  War requires people to give and follow orders, and to risk their lives.  No amount of sim design will change the fact that gamers are more suited to the reality of sims/games.  AH has the flexibility to accomodate simmers through scenarios and special events, but most people have limited time and go for the quick adrenalin rush of gamey flying.  The problem is not with sim/game designers, but with the gaming/simming public.

ra


Good point Ra .
I used to be a fatalist,
but that part of me died.

Offline DoKGonZo

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« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2004, 09:48:37 PM »
My experience is that gamers get crusty britches over fancy graphic effects; where as simmers look for precise modeling.

Gamers tend to be much more selfish, I find - willing to hack games if need be even if it ruins it for everyone else. Simmer's tend to respect the genre the game is representing, even to the point of not using Lancs as dive bombers (shocking, but true!).

     -DoK

Offline doobs

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« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2004, 09:52:56 PM »
its all these damn dryerlint radishes being devoured by seagulls wearing snowshoes.
R.I.P JG44
(founding XO)

68KO always remembered

Offline Grimm

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Re: simmer/gamer...community
« Reply #11 on: September 09, 2004, 10:32:18 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by airbumba

(c)Finally I want to mention the aviation community. Firstly and foremost, that is the category most of us fit in. We all love airplanes. We wish we could swan about poking the clouds and buzzing the fields. Even for those of us who do fly in RL, we can’t do what we can in a simm. Ultimately the respect I hope returns to this community, can , and will only return when gamers and simmers alike aspire to show the aviation community the respect it deserves
 


No Disrespect intended for those of you that love aviation,  But I dont believe this true.  I think the community is mostly Gamers and Simmers, even history Buffs and Not Aviation lovers.  

I say this because only the tinyest fraction of AH Folks have ever been to the Meca of Aviation,  I have been shocked at how few people here even know what it is.    If your really Truley an aviation person,  you would strive to make the pilgramige at somepoint.   I see almost total lack of interest here in the largest aviation event in the world.  

This doesnt mean folks are bad, or dont love flying AH and flight Sims.   To me it just means they are more in to Computer stuff than Aviation.   Maybe Im wrong,  but thats how I interperate things.    Just a different take on your comments.  

Good Post BTW   :)

Offline KurtVW

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« Reply #12 on: September 09, 2004, 10:40:36 PM »
Quote
its all these damn dryerlint radishes being devoured by seagulls wearing snowshoes.


I'm with Doobs on this one.

Offline FT_Animal

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« Reply #13 on: September 09, 2004, 11:40:53 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Horn
or perhaps gamers mature into simmers....


....after the weak are weeded out. ;-)

Anim

Offline FT_Animal

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Re: simmer/gamer...community
« Reply #14 on: September 09, 2004, 11:42:56 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by airbumba
Gamer or Simmer

I watched a show on PBS the other night about the evolution of the video game, it was a good show, but it might have just answered a few lingering questions I’ve had about Aces High it’s community and the ever present ‘two camps’ syndrome which seems to prevail every topic raised. I do not and will not pretend for a second to speak about the community as a whole or even two majorities, it’s an individually based dynamic entity constantly evolving, and answers to it’s ailments will be just as fluid.
 
After seeing that show, I’ve come to the conclusion that the community is loosely split between gamers and simmers, as mentioned before on this BBS. I understand more about the ‘gamer’ after watching that show. Some observations,  the gamer is always in charge, if not in control, of the situation. Most gamers play roles where they are not themselves, whether through ‘god’ type games, or ‘rpg’ games. The purpose of many ‘games’, is escape from reality, or fantasy, by immersing yourself in a world full of situations where you can act any way you wish, because you are not playing as yourself. In fact it would be impossible to act as yourself in many ‘rpg’s, since staying ‘in character’ is what it’s all about.

The simmer, ‘flight simmer’ in this case would rather be in control of the situation than in charge of the game. Simmers play as themselves, by this I don’t mean they put their Soc. Sec.# as their CPID, I mean they are playing as they, themselves, would handle the situation in RL. Control of the aircraft is before gaming the game. Simmers are less inclined to be the crowd rushing off to buy the biggest machines, because graphics were just an added bonus to the early Flight Simms, and they ran on miniscule machines.

What’s this got to do with anyone here, well a few things..

(a)when an old MS Flight Simmer like myself sees all the people shooting down folks who say they can’t afford upgrading, I get confused? We’re not ‘gamers’, for many of us, the only game we play is a flight sim, (that’s my case anyway) so constant upgrading is new to us. Again just a misunderstanding between two worlds, the gamer and simmer.

(b)When a person comes from the ‘rpg’ gaming world , where they’ve never played as themselves and therefore their only community involvement has been anonymous, they might feel as if they can get away with acting in a different manner, then they would in RL, as themselves. This would make it very difficult to form a sense of community.

(c)Finally I want to mention the aviation community. Firstly and foremost, that is the category most of us fit in. We all love airplanes. We wish we could swan about poking the clouds and buzzing the fields. Even for those of us who do fly in RL, we can’t do what we can in a simm. Ultimately the respect I hope returns to this community, can , and will only return when gamers and simmers alike aspire to show the aviation community the respect it deserves

So what to do?
 Next time think before you speak.
 I find it a bit odd that the same guy that has a touching saying in his signature showing respect for a WW2 pilot, turns around and spews vile trashtalk at another guy with a similar sig, in a game that is supposed to be a kind of testimonial to our lasting respect of all WW2 pilots.

 Before you start ranting and flaming someone, think first, maybe that person just finished spending 50 hours on the making of that last scenario you enjoyed so much.

Be a good sport. Maybe that guy you just flamed for shooting you down was enjoying a quiet fun moment in an otherwise very difficult day. Don’t wait to find out the same guy has a sick kid in a hospital somewhere to say your sorry, don’t say it in the first place.

I'm not perfect, lol, by no means, I don't flame anyone , but I can ramble on range, or type to much, I'll fix that.

Well that’s about enough of your time, thanks for listening and I look forward to watching as the good folk in this community take it back.

CYA up there.


Awsome post, I'll be looking fr the show. ;-)

Anim