Author Topic: Please fix the ditch model (Read 394 times)

Blammo · « **on:** September 11, 2004, 02:57:42 PM »

OK...seen this way to much:

Shoot the crud out of a plane, he doesn't do a nice controlled ditch, but tumbles into the ground. He goes to tower and of course, no kill is awared. Same scenario a different time and a kill gets awarded.

I ditch sometimes after being shot up, no kill awarded (even when I have had a pilot wound, dead engine, missing half a wing and ending up upside-down). Other times I ditch because I ran out of fuel (the only listed damage to my plane) and a kill is award.

Please make the ditch model consistent or get rid of it. I am fine with a system that says "if the pilot survives the landing, it is a ditch and no kill awarded" or a system that says, "if you have any damage and the person that did the most damage is still alive, a kill is awarded." I don't like when I turn an enemy plane into scrap metal (or wood) and yet no kill gets awarded.

Example One: In a dogfight with a Mossie. I get the advantage and take off half of his left wing (in additon to *other* damage). Because of the maneuver we were in at the time the Mossie starts a very steep decent rolled halfway to the left. Right before impact he makes a sharp roll to the right and hits. The both wings, the engines and tha tail come off. They slide to a stop upside down. They go to tower and no kill is awared.

Example Two: I am outbound from a enemy field because of fuel. No damage before this point. I get hit from an M-16 and the only damage indicated is my fuel tank. About a minute later all my fuel is gone and I have to land it. Nice ditch, bend my prop, but no other listed damage. I go to tower and "You have been shot down by..." message.

Example Three: IL-2 vs P-38. P-38 blows big chunks off of the IL-2 at very low altitude and he goes to the deck. He tumbles nose over tail, loosing wings and tail in the process. He goes to tower and no kill it awarded.

These three examples are real. I was either apart of or have first hand knowledge of them happening. I can provide more if required, but I think others can testify to the porked ditch model.

Please fix it, one way or the other.

Urchin · « **Reply #1 on:** September 11, 2004, 04:12:07 PM »

I'll try to keep this pretty simple.

If you are in enemy territory, and you ditch when nobody is around and you havent been shot.. you get a "captured" message.

If you ditch in enemy territory when nobody is around but your plane was shot (even one bullet), you get a "you have been shot down" message.

If you ditch in enemy territory when someone is close to you, even if you've not been shot, you get a "you have been shot down" message (prox kill for them.. no perk points, not sure on "real points).

If you ditch in friendly territory and your plane is undamage and nobody is around.. you get a "ditched" message.

If you ditch in friendly territory and your plane is all shot to **** and there are 17 enemy planes buzzing you... you get a "ditched" message.

See the difference? Friendly territory vs enemy territory. By definition.. friendly territory is anywhere you are closer to a friendly base than an enemy base (over land anyway, not sure about water).

By the way, I like the new ditching model. Every single plane that came in contact with the ground in real life did not instantly become a fireball. They'd slide along the ground, depending on what angle they hit at. It was actually possible for people to get "shot down" at low altitude and survive, assuming they were low enough that their plane didn't dramatically change attitude before it hit the ground.

Blammo · « **Reply #2 on:** September 11, 2004, 07:04:09 PM »

Urchin, thank you for your insight, but I already understand all of that. Believe it or not, I knew someone would say the things you said. Also, believe it or not, the situations I described fell within the parameters you gave.

I have ditched in frieindly territory and the the bad guy got the kill. I have ditched in enemy territy and no one got the kill.

See, I wouldn't have said it was broken unless my experience (and the experience others) suggested it was. See how that works? I would have no issue if my experience had been consistent, but since it has not, I am reporting it.

Thank you, have a nice day

moot · « **Reply #3 on:** September 11, 2004, 07:52:28 PM »

Won't debate the other two, but in #2, you were shot down.

Blammo · « **Reply #4 on:** September 12, 2004, 11:58:40 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by moot
Won't debate the other two, but in #2, you were shot down.

Yes, but the point is, I was well away from the M-16 that shot me up. Closer to my friendly base that the enemy. According to Urchin, I should have gotten a ditch, not a "you have been shot down" message.

My point again is it is not consistent.

I have seen, first had, exact same scenarios reversed from bad guy to good guy, but with different results. In other words, enemy gets shot up, ditches near an friendly base and no kill is awarded. Friendly gets shot up, ditches near a friendly base and a kill is awarded. Enemy get's shot up and ditches near an enemy field, kill gets awarded. Friendly gets shot up and ditches near an enemy field and no kill is award.

Like I said, my observation has been that the kill award is not consistent. I have not problem with a system that is consistent. However, my observation is that the current one is not.

RTSigma · « **Reply #5 on:** September 12, 2004, 12:51:30 PM »

Howabout the kill is automatically awarded when:

-A wing is completely seperated from the aircraft.

-A stabilizer is destroyed.

-The entire rear of the plane is shorn.

This means that if the plane your are shooting at and has no absolute way of flying in sustained level flight, it is a kill.

I believe kills were awarded when an enemy plane was put out of comission right?

moot · « **Reply #6 on:** September 12, 2004, 10:43:17 PM »

Urchin's wrong on that one.
If you don't make it to the runway because of damage incurred from battle, that's being shot down.

TequilaChaser · « **Reply #7 on:** September 13, 2004, 03:26:51 PM »

I have had an instance where I took massive hits/damage in a F4U and ditched it safely without having a kill awarded to the enemy and then I have ditched with massive damage and hits in a F4U and a kill was awarded and it was in the vacinity of frinedly base, in the last patch or 2, I have experienced this episode very often regardless if I was in friendly or enemy territory..... once more how frequent do you think it was to do crash landing / ditches at over 250 mph when you touch down on terra ferma? especially off the runway where you did not have a hard surface to keep the plane from digging in.......and walk away from it without awarding a kill to the opponent

Then it flips to the opposite, no damage no wounds nothing, you ditch in friendly territory and award a kill, yet you in enemy terrirtory and ditch with no hits and walk away...... and vice versa....

something is afoul...........(edited- I don't know if anything is really afouled or not, it just seems like it to me from past patch versions...it could all be in my mind heh )

Blammo · « **Reply #8 on:** September 15, 2004, 01:10:17 AM »

Another good example from today:

I was in an Osti @ 114 rolling to the town to defend. While on my way the based gets captured. I hang out for a while shooting down 6 planes in the process and de-acking the town. Eventually, my turret is knocked out and I loose both tracks. I sat there for a little while talking on country to see if there was any plan to take the base back. I was not sitting on concrete, this was an enemy base, and there were enemy aircraft up in the area. I decided to take the ditch or the kill and so I went to tower. Lo and behold, I landed my kills! All six on them. On an enemy base when my Osti shot to pieces. LOL

So, I'll say again, something is messed up with the ditch model and it appears to be an inconsistent problem.

moot · « **Reply #9 on:** September 15, 2004, 03:13:07 AM »

Sigma,
I've landed 152s and 262s without vert stabs.
Horizontals are a different story as it seems they always break in pairs.

Blammo,
Sounds like a bug on that last one, tho it used to be that way.
Unless it happens regularly... I've landed kills by augering straight into the ground once.

Blammo · « **Reply #10 on:** September 15, 2004, 11:37:38 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by moot
I've landed kills by augering straight into the ground once.

Sorry, the mental imagery made me laugh

Delirium · « **Reply #11 on:** September 15, 2004, 02:08:35 PM »

During the Battle of Britian scenario I was shot down at 200feet almost inverted at high speed (at least for a SpitI) and somehow I was able to ditch without a wing or a tail, inverted.

Tails · « **Reply #12 on:** September 15, 2004, 05:31:45 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by moot
Unless it happens regularly... I've landed kills by augering straight into the ground once.

You must teach me this one-point landing technique..