Author Topic: What kind of a sissy would fly a "perk" plane? (Read 1064 times)

lazs · « **Reply #30 on:** January 09, 2001, 01:51:00 PM »

Yes, balance as far as planes capabilities go. I cannot believe that anyone feels that even a 109 or 190 is at a dbig disadvantage when fighting a C hog for instance. IMO there will allways be a "most popular" plane even in the most balanced arena. The C hogs abilities are mediocre.

Add the -4 or the Spit 14 to the current mix and then you will know the meaning of unbalanced.

Point is and remains..... The crying and whining that is going on now is about planes with very little advantage over their peers.... I am flabergasted that the same jerkoffs want to add clearly superior AC (perk) to the mix! How can we on the one hand have this whining about current planes and on the other ask, no, beg for the imbalance of perk planes. What is the reasoning here?

Senseless and avoidable.
lazs

popeye · « **Reply #31 on:** January 09, 2001, 01:54:00 PM »

My take on the reasons for the popularity of the Chog:

Very effective for ground attack. About the only plane with a hope of killing an Ostie without bombs. Also very effective against structures and ack.

Very effective in an MA environment. Roll rate, toughness, instantaneous turn rate, huge ammo supply, and BFG make the Chog ideal for snap shots, HO's, Spray-n-Pray, and vultching. 1v1 away from the furball, they are <cough> less effective.

Uh...what was the question? Oh...perk planes. I'm saving my perkies for a P-40N.

[This message has been edited by popeye (edited 01-09-2001).]

Wanker · « **Reply #32 on:** January 09, 2001, 02:44:00 PM »

Lazs, I think you're just being defensive over the eventual perking of the Chog. Regardless of what the Chog's advantages are over plane X, the fact is right now that almost 30% of sorties are being flown in the Chog, and Pyro wants to find a way to balance the plane sorties. The perk system fills this bill rather nicely.

Like any other perk plane, the Chog will be flown in smaller numbers than it currently is. A few perk planes here and there aren't going to overbalance the numbers in the area like the current Chogfest does now.

Take the ME-262 for example. It is definately an uber plane compared to the rest of the planes. But, restricted as a perk plane, there will only be a small percentage in the MA at any given time. It's not going to be a major threat to the vast majority of people flying in the arena.

Sure, the planeset as it stands now is relatively balanced, on a plane by plane basis. But it's not balanced in sortie ratio by plane type. That's why the Chog is destined for the perk market.

Tac · « **Reply #33 on:** January 09, 2001, 03:14:00 PM »

Yes Rip, I see your point of view. However the Yak and the P-51 and every other plane have to be FLOWN to get a kill. CHOGS and N1Ks are point and spray. Yak has a very small ammo load, which has forced me, a recent Yak addict, to ACM and fire below d300 range. And I tell ya, it has enchanced my game 1000%! I feel that not only I "got him" but that I DESERVED the kill. My folks sometimes wonder what that grin of complete and utter satisfaction on my face is all about after I log off to eat.

N1K has almost the same guns and a VERY good FM (almost UFO-Like... looping 10 times just after takeoff..wow!). CHOG riders will migrate to it after the CHOG is perked. After N1K is perked they may have to start to learn some ACM.

I applaud all D-Hog drivers. Its truely a joy to fly against them. It has become quite common to see a d1.1 CHOG spray your 6 praying to Saint Hispano. And mind you, thats one saint that answers the call!

But when I see lotsa little fast ROF tracers fly by my 6 and see an F4U icon I get into ACM fighting to get him, cause its a D-Hog and I know it will be a fun fight. If I see a few, low rate of fire tracers flying around me and see an F4U icon spewing them I just run for it, as any turn or anything else you do will result in a massive vomiting of hispano that will result in the single ping of death.

Im not familiar with the F4U-4 people say should be perked. Is it faster? what?. If it has .50's i'll fight it using the best qualities of MY plane against the worst qualities of HIS plane. But against turbolaser cannon, it ceases to become a matter of ACM skill and becomes a matter of luck.

On the other hand though, I would like to see how the CHOGS would fare if there was a friendly-icon-only arena enviroment. Take their laser rangefinders and see how much % of kills they get.

Ripsnort · « **Reply #34 on:** January 09, 2001, 03:19:00 PM »

Does anyone remember what plane got more than 20% of the kills in V.44? P51D Mustang. Guess it's turn to be perked will be coming soon after N1K and C-Hog are perked.

lazs · « **Reply #35 on:** January 09, 2001, 03:33:00 PM »

guys... since the gun balance has improved i have flown all D hog and f6 sorties and am quite happy bigger ammo load, more bullets in the air.. I find the c hog a great target and would hate to see it go. If, OTOH, i want to take out that pesky ground vehicle.... I don't want some lame "this plane is unavailable to you" message. I don't want to keep track of what plane I can or can't fly.

Addmittedly, the Chog and niki perk crap will be the least offensive sense I don't care if I see any of em in the arena or not. they are a non issue no matter how many or little their numbers since their FM is simply a boogie man and not fact but...

The idiotic perk system will really bother me when real uber rides like the -4 and Spit 14 are perked in. I don't want em in the same arena as inferior planes no matter what the reason.

Again, how will "earning" uberplanes make them any less offensive than just choosing them in the arena.... Especially in light of the fact that the planes being complained about now are only slightly (if at all) better than the vast majority while.....the propossed perk planes will be vastly superior?
lazs

AKDejaVu · « **Reply #36 on:** January 09, 2001, 03:47:00 PM »

Lazs,

I think you are correct to a point. I've said before that the perk system could lead to increased animosity in the arena. With all the "chog dweeb", "HO dweeb" and "N1k dweeb" calls in the arena these days... I shudder to think what the perk planes will bring.

People don't like fighting at a disadvantage. The perk planes will solve that for a small percentage of the pilots... er... wouldn't that put a large percent at an even greater disadvantage?

The above are my thoughts on the idea of the perk point system. Where we depart, lazs, is that I don't believe my view is the end-all-be-all of what will happen. I'm willing to take a brake from my complaint and sit back to see what happens.

To be honest... I hope I'm wrong. I hope the perk point system instills tactics that will drive the fights back up over 10k. I don't remember the last time I was up that high except to intercept a bomber.

I don't see the perk system as idiotic... more idealistic. I'm just too pecimistic to actually lend it my support. That said, I'm not bullish enough to feel I need to bash the system at every mention and refuse to believe that anything but the worse will happen.

AKDejaVu

[This message has been edited by AKDejaVu (edited 01-09-2001).]

Nash · « **Reply #37 on:** January 09, 2001, 03:48:00 PM »

Just how vastly superior will these perk planes be?

Take the boogie man outta the perk planes...

I'm asking this sincerely... I really aint worried about them... but should I be?

lazs · « **Reply #38 on:** January 09, 2001, 04:02:00 PM »

Ok fair enough.... crying before i'm hurt but...

nash... the -4 hog will climb about 4k per minute.... it will turn as well or better than the current hogs and do 380 on the deck and 446-460 at about 20k... Be very afraid. It will also look exactly like every other hog before, and while it kills you... Animosity? How ya gonna avoid it? Spit 14 will be the same deal compared to spit 9.

Soooo.... if we get this much animosity with a relatively well balanced plane set... Why wouldn't it be even worse with a perk idea and true uber planes?

They simply do not belong in the same arena as the other mid war planes. This is the main fact that cannot be changed.
lazs

Nash · « **Reply #39 on:** January 09, 2001, 04:23:00 PM »

Yeah... hmm... I dunno.

As it is, most of the a/c in the arena already out-turns my ride, and when bounced, they're usually going twice as fast. I don't think I'm gonna see much that I haven't already been up against. I mean, if ya know how to avoid a bounce, you should be OK...

On the other hand, you ARE gonna see these perk planes lower and slower than you from time to time. If yer engaged with one, the folks in yer country are gonna be crawling all over themselves to clear yer 6 - you can bet on that.

I just... I dunno... there are a ton of variables....I guess we'll see.

Tac · « **Reply #40 on:** January 09, 2001, 04:24:00 PM »

ah so the -4 hog is faster. Wicked!

Honestly, I really dont see a problem fighting a faster plane or a better turning one, as it is the pilot that has to make that advantage work for him. Just look at the Pony. Fastest mother in the arena and yet they are shot down with the same regularity as other planes. Their ratio aint so different. A slow pony is a dead pony. Just the same as a slow -4hog may be a dead hog.. its just a matter of the pilot's acm skills and how he uses his plane.

It would be the equivalent of perking the P-51D because the 202 cant match it. Its just ACM that matter in such a fight. HOwever, CHOGS and N1Ks hardly have to ACM.

AKDejaVu · « **Reply #41 on:** January 09, 2001, 04:47:00 PM »

Quote

its just a matter of the pilot's acm skills and how he uses his plane

How is this different from the N1K2 and F4u-1C?

The perk planes might have 4 hispanos too.

AKDejaVu

LJK Raubvogel · « **Reply #42 on:** January 09, 2001, 04:53:00 PM »

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How is this different from the N1K2 and F4u-1C?

Because there won't be a perk plane getting 20% of the overall arena kills.

[This message has been edited by LJK Raubvogel (edited 01-09-2001).]

AKDejaVu · « **Reply #43 on:** January 09, 2001, 05:38:00 PM »

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Because there won't be a perk plane getting 20% of the overall arena kills.

...and how does the N1K2 factor into that again? The 20% refference was for the F4u-1C. The N1K2 is being out-used by the F6F-5 and is just barely beating out the F4u-1D.

So.. just to clarify:

Quote

A slow pony is a dead pony. Just the same as a slow -4hog may be a dead hog.. its just a matter of the pilot's acm skills and how he uses his plane.

How is this different from the N1K2 and Chog?

The same excuses used to accept perk planes have been overlooked in F4u-1C and N1K2 discussions. The main digs on the F4u-1C and N1K2 are overlooked in regards to the perk planes. Suddenly, these things are no longer a big deal and everybody will accept it. Will they be used as much? Nope. Will they have more of an advantage? Yep.

The truth is, we'll just have to wait and see. I'll try not to slam the perk plane idea. You try not to make it sound like there is absolutely nothing wrong with it. Deal?

AKDejaVu

Wanker · « **Reply #44 on:** January 10, 2001, 07:46:00 AM »

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Again, how will "earning" uberplanes make them any less offensive than just choosing them in the arena....

Simply because everyone can't just select the perked planes on a whim. Because of the points involved, the perked numbers should be relatively small. They won't be as "offensive" because there won't be as many. I think the only real reason that the Chog is "offensive" right now is that there are so many of them around right now.

Lazs, don't put the cart before the horse. Let's just see how it all shakes out, maybe we'll both be surprised by the outcome.