Author Topic: Ki 84 (Read 581 times)

onions4u · « **on:** September 14, 2004, 05:58:31 PM »

was reading about the ki84 one source stated that it came with two 20s and two 50s or 4 20s or two 20s and 2 30s which version r we getting and will we be able to get all the gun sets

bustr · « **Reply #1 on:** September 14, 2004, 06:10:05 PM »

greedy.....

Karnak · « **Reply #2 on:** September 14, 2004, 06:24:17 PM »

Almost certainly the Ki-84-I-Ko with two 20mm Ho-5 cannon in the wings (150rpg) and two 12.7mm Ho-103 machine guns in the cowl (350rpg). Of the 3,514 Ki-84s built about 200 were pre-production aircraft, 2,800 or so were Ki-84-I-Ko as I described and about 500 were Ki-84-I-Otsu with four 20mm Ho-5 cannon, two in the wings and two in the cowl (150rpg).

Less than 10 Ki-84s were armed with two 20mm and two 30mm cannon, but in IL-2:FB that version is insanely leathal. It is not clear that it every saw combat. It is almost impossible to shoot down the B-17 or the big German six engined transport with the Ki-84-I-Ko or Ki-84-I-Otsu in IL-2:FB, but the Ki-84 with the two 30mm can blow either into little bits with hardly any effort at all.

What I wouldn't mind seeing in AH is the Ki-84-I-Ko as a free aircraft and the Ki-84-I-Otsu as a lightly perked aircraft in the same vein as the F4U-1C. I do not think the 30mm armed Ki-84 has any place in AH.

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #3 on:** September 14, 2004, 11:20:51 PM »

Well the 3 gun LA7 is free and they had even less production...

Karnak · « **Reply #4 on:** September 14, 2004, 11:40:07 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Well the 3 gun LA7 is free and they had even less production...

That is true. I have considered that, but don't really have any idea what should be done.

If they offer a generic Ki-84 with either two 12.7mm guns and two 20mm cannon or four 20mm cannon almost everybody will take the four 20mm cannon, just as the three cannon are almost always taken on the La-7.

One part of me wants to say "Well, if it is fine for the La-7 with fewer three gun models built then it is dang well fine for the Ki-84!" Another part though, says "If the four cannon option is available then that is all that will get used, even in CT setups and that is not good as it was not the most common version of the Ki-84."

J_A_B · « **Reply #5 on:** September 15, 2004, 12:24:14 PM »

I don't view it as quite the same issue as the LA7

While the LA7 gains an extra cannon, its cannon ammo load hardly changes (400 to 450), thus its maximum killing power hardly changes. Same with the way the P-51D's ammo load is virtually the same whether you choose 6 or 4 guns (1880 rds vs 1800). You don't really change your total killing power; rather you just change the balance of instant punch/firing duration.

The different K-84's are more like the different models of F4U--they would have vastly impoved killing power by virtue of having many more big shells.

J_A_B

Tilt · « **Reply #6 on:** September 16, 2004, 05:09:36 AM »

Similar numbers of La7 3 cannon (La7 (45))versions saw combat (more were made) so I reckon the arguement re the Ki84 Otsu is very appropriate.

If the Chog and the Ki 84 Otsu should be perked then perking an La7 (45) would be equitable.

This way HTC offers three low cost perked ac with non perked variants of lower fire power.

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #7 on:** September 16, 2004, 05:15:54 AM »

The 3 gun La7 is quite a bit more lethal than the 2 gun, despite having less ammo per gun.

I've flown the 3 gun a lot and all you need to kill any fighter is one tap on the trigger, this is not the case on the 2 gun where you spray a lot. The difference is so big that I'll often leave a target plane alive thinking that I killed it with a 2 20mm armed plane when I didnt in fact, thats how much difference there is in that 3rd nose mounted gun ... IMO the 3 gun la7 has one of the best if not the best non perk gun packages..

TimRas · « **Reply #8 on:** September 16, 2004, 05:44:26 AM »

While we are at it, how about getting Spit V and IX with four Hispanos, and Fw190 with all the gunpod options...

Tilt · « **Reply #9 on:** September 16, 2004, 11:48:30 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
IMO the 3 gun la7 has one of the best if not the best non perk gun packages..

Except for the Typhoon ........

But I would agree the snap shot potential of the La7 (45) is far greater than its 2 gun variant.

J_A_B · « **Reply #10 on:** September 16, 2004, 12:13:33 PM »

Of couse its killing power is greater in snapshots. That's the point of having the extra gun. Same can be said for the P-51's options.

But...you can klill almost as many planes with 400 rounds as with 450. You won't kill them in snapshots as often, but total kills won't change much.

J_A_B

Karnak · « **Reply #11 on:** September 16, 2004, 12:27:34 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by J_A_B
Of couse its killing power is greater in snapshots. That's the point of having the extra gun. Same can be said for the P-51's options.

But...you can klill almost as many planes with 400 rounds as with 450. You won't kill them in snapshots as often, but total kills won't change much.

J_A_B

Taking longer to saddle up and kill an enemy aircraft significantly increases your exposure to having an enemy kill you.

I agree that that the Ki-84-I-Otsu's gain is larger, but the La-7 (45) is also significantly better than the La-7 (44).

The La-7's base performance is also better than the Ki-84's and so has an easier time applying it's firepower. Frankly, I think the La-7 should simply be perked. I don't really care how many guns it has.

However, I would not at all mind seeing the La-7 (44) and La-7 (45) split apart and have the La-7 (45) perked. If the Ki-84-I-Otsu is ever added then a light perk price on it would be fine too. Have the F4U-1C, La-7 (45) and Ki-84-I-Otsu all as cheap perk planes with generic icons. F4U, LA7 and KI84 respectively.