Author Topic: What is so wrong with the Perk Plane system? Its a good thing...  (Read 764 times)

Offline Karnak

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What is so wrong with the Perk Plane system? Its a good thing...
« Reply #15 on: December 05, 2000, 10:57:00 AM »
StSanta,
Sorry, I didn't realize that you and your squad were such poor pilots.

A Spitfire F.MkXIV (your example of an superduperuber plane) has these two behavior options:

1:  Boom and Zoom
2:  Turn and Burn

If it uses option 1 it is effectively a short ranged P-51 and the basic tactics that work against a P-51 will work against it.

If it uses option 2 it is a slightly better accelerating Spitfire MkIX.  It will still be slower than your BnZing 109s or 190s and the basic tactics that work against a Spitfire MkIX will work against it.

It does not accelerate fast enough to transition from behavior 2 to behavior 1 when fighting more than 2 well flown aircraft.

I'm sorry to hear that you can't deal with P-51s and Spitfire MkIXs.

Sisu
-Karnak
Petals floating by,
      Drift through my woman's hand,
             As she remembers me-

Offline Lephturn

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What is so wrong with the Perk Plane system? Its a good thing...
« Reply #16 on: December 05, 2000, 11:39:00 AM »
Any plane can be fought versus any other plane.  No plane is that dominant, even the perks.

Try flying a Jug for a tour if you want to see what it will be like.  When I run into a C-Hog I am completely out-classed in every respect.  Climb, speed, turn, E retention, guns, everything.  The only thing I have is high-alt performance which doesn't mean squat in the arena.  You don't hear me whinin' about it.  So you don't have a clear advantage of any kind... so what.  Welcome to my world.

BTW, all of these things are only a problem if I'm by myself.  Give me one Jug wingy and I'm not out-classed anymore... by anything.  

------------------
Lephturn - Chief Trainer
A member of The Flying Pigs  http://www.flyingpigs.com
 
"A pig is a jolly companion, Boar, sow, barrow, or gilt --
A pig is a pal, who'll boost your morale, Though mountains may topple and tilt.
When they've blackballed, bamboozled, and burned you, When they've turned on you, Tory and Whig,
Though you may be thrown over by Tabby and Rover, You'll never go wrong with a pig, a pig,
You'll never go wrong with a pig!" -- Thomas Pynchon, "Gravity's Rainbow"

[This message has been edited by Lephturn (edited 12-05-2000).]

Offline AKDejaVu

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What is so wrong with the Perk Plane system? Its a good thing...
« Reply #17 on: December 05, 2000, 11:51:00 AM »
The way the perk points system was described... the perk plane is lost if you die flying it and perk points are reset.

I don't really agree with any of the "disrupting squads" arguments presented above.  I think they are a moot point.  Who is going to dive a one-kill one-plane aircraft into a 4:1?

I do, however, believe that perk planes will be more of a neusance than a perk.  The fact that a loss is really a loss means perk planes will be the highest, fastest and most distant planes in the arena.  They will be superior in some way (afterall.. they are perked for a reason) and will be flown by pilots that are VERY reluctant to engage from anything but a distinct advantage.

It just seems to be something that would cause animosity in the arena.

AKDejaVu

Offline Karnak

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What is so wrong with the Perk Plane system? Its a good thing...
« Reply #18 on: December 05, 2000, 12:28:00 PM »
Now AKDejaVu's appraisal is something that I agree with.

I do think that perks will be used in the most conservative manner and that will cause much whinning from the masses below.

Look at how they already whine about the P-51D and use it as a preview of the Great Whine to come.

Sisu
-Karnak
Petals floating by,
      Drift through my woman's hand,
             As she remembers me-

Offline Westy

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What is so wrong with the Perk Plane system? Its a good thing...
« Reply #19 on: December 05, 2000, 12:33:00 PM »
"will cause much whinning from the masses below."

?? So. How is this is different than what we all have to hear online and see in these boards every day right now?  

 -Westy

Offline StSanta

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What is so wrong with the Perk Plane system? Its a good thing...
« Reply #20 on: December 05, 2000, 12:56:00 PM »
Karnak:

when the reps say the liberals are idiots not capable of coherent thinking, sarcasm or general understanding, they're probably right.

You don't know what you're talking about.

Next time you insult me or my squad, you better bring on heavier firepower.

At least try. Even a dimwitted, maggots for brain leftist conspiracy feeble minded gimboid with the charm of a Springer fan and the intellect of a mutated braindead midget ought to have come up with something better.

You're a bit short of a byte.

Now, kindly, if you will, please go play with some gasoline. I'll provide the matches.

Even better since you're bound not to figure out how they work, I'll throw you a lit torch.

be kind to the dogs - they are probably not enjoying your sexual escapades with them as much as you are.

Regards



------------------
StSanta
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
while(!bishRookQueue.isEmpty() && loggedOn()){
30mmDeathDIEDIEDIE(bishRookQueue.removeFront());
System.out.println("LW pilots are superior");
myPlane.performVictoryRoll();
}

Offline StSanta

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What is so wrong with the Perk Plane system? Its a good thing...
« Reply #21 on: December 05, 2000, 12:57:00 PM »
Lephturn, I fly the A8. The Jug and A8 are comparable, with the advantage slightly in the favour of the jug.

------------------
StSanta
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
while(!bishRookQueue.isEmpty() && loggedOn()){
30mmDeathDIEDIEDIE(bishRookQueue.removeFront());
System.out.println("LW pilots are superior");
myPlane.performVictoryRoll();
}

Offline Ripsnort

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What is so wrong with the Perk Plane system? Its a good thing...
« Reply #22 on: December 05, 2000, 01:03:00 PM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by StSanta:
Lephturn, I fly the A8. The Jug and A8 are comparable, with the advantage slightly in the favour of the jug.

LOL, the Swastika tattoo is showing through your thinly veiled shroud.


Offline Lephturn

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What is so wrong with the Perk Plane system? Its a good thing...
« Reply #23 on: December 05, 2000, 01:28:00 PM »
Not true StSanta.

With the A8 you have the clear advantage in roll over every plane in the sim.  You also have one of the best accellerating planes in the game, especially as compared to the Jug.

Now I will grant you that the A8 and Jug are similar in terms in strengths and weaknesses, but that's about it.  Sow how is the Jug supposed to be the better plane again?  I guess it's tougher, not that I'd call that a "performance" measurement.  

However, none of that is the point really.  My point is that fighting a plane that out-classes you in almost every way is nothing new.  If you want it to be "fair", then we all need to fly the same plane.  Life isn't fair, and neither is AH.  It's not supposed to be.  Deal with it.  

And I guess in the end that's what it will come down to.  You'll either deal with the perk plane system or leave.  HTC knows very well they will lose some customers over the Perk system, but they will likely gain some as well.  This is the case with any change they make to a product like this.  Obviously they feel it is the right decision to make.  Now why don't we just wait and see the thing actually implemented before we waste any more time complaining about it?

------------------
Lephturn - Chief Trainer
A member of The Flying Pigs  http://www.flyingpigs.com
 
"A pig is a jolly companion, Boar, sow, barrow, or gilt --
A pig is a pal, who'll boost your morale, Though mountains may topple and tilt.
When they've blackballed, bamboozled, and burned you, When they've turned on you, Tory and Whig,
Though you may be thrown over by Tabby and Rover, You'll never go wrong with a pig, a pig,
You'll never go wrong with a pig!" -- Thomas Pynchon, "Gravity's Rainbow"

Offline Ripsnort

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What is so wrong with the Perk Plane system? Its a good thing...
« Reply #24 on: December 05, 2000, 01:45:00 PM »
Hmm, Leph, the more I read your posts, the more I'm likely to give up eating pork! <S>

AKSeaWulfe

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What is so wrong with the Perk Plane system? Its a good thing...
« Reply #25 on: December 05, 2000, 04:35:00 PM »
So far I haven't seen one good argument against perk planes. The smart pilot will prevail in any plane, you just give it to him and he'll do damned amazing things with it. Pilots that get the perk planes won't do handsomehunked things with it, such as using it to engage an entire squad unless they want to lose that there perk plane. The 262 won't afford you the cushion of safety in a dynamic arena with so many variables that our feeble minds can not attempt to comprehend them. You think just cuz you got speed you're safe?

262 has poor initial turning and no sustained turn rate. He's got one good pass then he's gotta zoom away allowing you to regain any speed you lost for another quick jinx when he comes diving down onto you again. Using intelligence rather than just yanking your stick around will always guarantee you will live while you send your opponent to meet the virtual ground in a ball of fire.

If I have no quarrels with one or two high ponies in a low and slow La5, then who's to say I will have no problem dealing with one or two high perk planes in a low and slow <insert plane type here>?

You'd better get used to flying a plane that isn't king of the hill right now, because there's going to be plenty of times in the near future where you are going to wish you learned more than taking quick pot shots then dashing away to secure an alt/speed advantage over your enemy or relying simply on your cannons to make up for your lack of SA and ACM.
-SW

Offline StSanta

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What is so wrong with the Perk Plane system? Its a good thing...
« Reply #26 on: December 05, 2000, 06:04:00 PM »
lephturn:

This discussion made me think, so I did some comparisons. Please check
 http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/Forum9/HTML/001125.html

to see it.

Quite interesting. I expected the P-47 to perform a bit better.

And, if you notice I am responding to an anti whiner. I ain't starting these threads.

"Cause and effect go hand in hand with/the devil might care but I don't mind"  .


------------------
StSanta
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
while(!bishRookQueue.isEmpty() && loggedOn()){
30mmDeathDIEDIEDIE(bishRookQueue.removeFront());
System.out.println("LW pilots are superior");
myPlane.performVictoryRoll();
}

[This message has been edited by StSanta (edited 12-05-2000).]

Offline Lephturn

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What is so wrong with the Perk Plane system? Its a good thing...
« Reply #27 on: December 06, 2000, 07:38:00 AM »
Your tests pretty much confirmed what I figured the comparison of the two planes was anyway.

The Jug is no arena plane, the alts are just too low for her to really shine.  I can't wait to fly my "big lady" in a scenario though. <G>

Oh yeah, and if you think the Jug is ugly, you must like those skinny waif-like model chicks that look like skeletons.  I like my planes and my women with a little more meat on 'em.  My Jug is a beautiful full figured gal.  

------------------
Lephturn - Chief Trainer
A member of The Flying Pigs  http://www.flyingpigs.com
 
"A pig is a jolly companion, Boar, sow, barrow, or gilt --
A pig is a pal, who'll boost your morale, Though mountains may topple and tilt.
When they've blackballed, bamboozled, and burned you, When they've turned on you, Tory and Whig,
Though you may be thrown over by Tabby and Rover, You'll never go wrong with a pig, a pig,
You'll never go wrong with a pig!" -- Thomas Pynchon, "Gravity's Rainbow"

-lazs-

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What is so wrong with the Perk Plane system? Its a good thing...
« Reply #28 on: December 06, 2000, 08:23:00 AM »
Ok... The arguement is that there is enough whining allready so adding more with perk planes is ok?   Or is it... Enough people fly conservitivly now so why not add more?  

The point is... What is the point?   Perk planes can only make things worse in the arena.   Whoever is in one has an unfair advantage and whoever get's beat by one will be pissed if he knows it was by a perk plane and whining about FM if he doesn't know it.

So why have em?   So that the late war oddballs can be introduced and thereby be "used" in scenarios?  Look... Why not just make em a scenerio only plane if that is the case?   Everyone complains that they can't get people into scenarios but that would certainly be an incentive.

I of course, prefer a early and/or late war "arena area" but...
lazs

Offline SOB

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What is so wrong with the Perk Plane system? Its a good thing...
« Reply #29 on: December 06, 2000, 08:44:00 AM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by -lazs-:

The point is... What is the point?   Perk planes can only make things worse in the arena.   Whoever is in one has an unfair advantage and whoever get's beat by one will be pissed if he knows it was by a perk plane and whining about FM if he doesn't know it.

I won't.  I'm looking forward to the perk plane system, and I think it'll be good.


SOB
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