Tour 13 Stats: half way through

[RAM]

Answer time  


If you love the 190, you fly the TRUE one, not the plane that was only produced to the tune of 700 or so and was used mainly as base defense for 262's.

You will laugh at this one, but probably the plane I will most fly will be the F8, seconded by the D9 and after it by the A5.

Regarding the "you fly the true one" etc etc etc, I have been flying Fw190A8 and Fw190A5 for more than one year. I think I have gained a couple of months of full 190D9 dedicated flying  
.

Don't let facts get in your way, your agenda is clear. My stats indicate I do much better in the German gear than in the American stuff. How do you explain that? To say that the number of sorties and the purpose of those sorties are unimportant tells me you are hardly unbiased.

Well, the thing is that the number of kills are there, and you wont tell me that of those 20% total kills the chog has, owes almost all of them to vulches, because its not true.


 

I agree that Chog is not the best plane in the set. But I dont care, HTC (pyro) said clearly that their standards for perking planes were to avoid unballancing the main arena. IMO the Nik and Chog DO unballance the arena.

And I respect your opinion, though I don't share it.

Sorry, but you dont only disagree with me, but with Pyro. This is a thing stated by himself on the first thread about perking the F4U1-C.


3. ignore the whole issue. You haven't proven anything as far as I can tell.


so, that two planes get one third of all the arena kills doesnt prove anything? Are you sure?

Why not? I thought you wanted people to take more of a challenge? Why not be a leader by example and challenge yourself?

This afternoon I have logged in and flown in 109G6 (wich btw is slower at some altitudes, and is a worse turner than the F4). Is the worse plane in the german set by far. And I saw niks everywhere. And I was killed twice in three sorties by Chogs. (third was ack).

I logged off absolutely depressed. Its not the lack of challenge, is the lack of variety what drives me mad.

What about the P-38's, 109's, Spits, P-51's, 190's, B-17's, Lancs... we must be playing different games, because I see about everything out there. There are areas that are guaranteed 1C magnets (ground attack, CV's) but aside from that I see more stangs and 109's than anything else.

Well, kieren, then I suggest you to get a notepad and take account of hte planes you see. I did it 2 weeks ago (I commented it on IRC, so I have proof that this is no lie), from more than 60 cons I had spotted, some 25 were hogs, a similar number were N1K2s, and only ten were different planes.

You contradict yourself much. You want more of a challenge (for others apparently), but you won't try to do something different. You want to legislate us into planes that you can kill more easily in your ride of choice.


I dont try to legislate anything. That some people thinks it is because they see the tree (me calling for the F4U1-C perked) But not the forest (that Pyro -HTC- has already stated that 20% of main arena kills is an unbalancing %) It is also a sorry consequence of people like Toad's great rethoric and demagogy. But I am NOT legislating anything. I am only repeating what has been already said BY HTC.

  As I said, its up to HTC to change their policy, to respect it, or to ignore it at all. Pyro's words were clear :

From http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/Forum1/HTML/007299.html

 

Originally posted by Pyro:
Perks are a way to balance the arena, not so much a means of classifying planes.  How many were produced or what its combat record was is not relevant.  Some planes intended to be perks may not need to be while others that weren't intended to be may end up getting perked.  Right now, the F4U-1C is accounting for about 20% of all kills in the arena.  I don't want to push the score values any further so perking it is about the only option left.

I dont say anything, I simply remark what Pyro has already stated: 20% of Main arena kills is for him UNBALANCING!. He has stated what HTC's policy is. Maybe that has changed after that post, but if it has, noone from HTC has said a thing about it.

So, that is why I say that its up to HTC to respect their own policy, to change it, or even to ignore it at all.

BTW, if HTC changes their policy, fine. I will stop claiming for planes perked under that argument. But then wich argument will be used to discern wich planes are perked or not?

 #s in service? we will see Spit XIVs on the MA and not Chogs.

 Inservice date?. Same story.

Perking system is to avoid unballancimg planes. Chog is one. IMO Nik is another.

[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 02-16-2001).]

[BBGunn]

At the risk of being redundent I'll say that the P38 in AH behaves more like an F model.  In my book the existing dive brakes just dont do anything and elevator control goes out before it should when accelerating.  There are of course other factors such as how players attempt to attack and the 38's "pingable" size but I really think it deserves some added attention.  Or take the chin scoups off, paint it olive green and make it an F model.

[Kieren]

][Ram, if the 1C and Nikki have a roughly comparable death rate, that is, that the total number of arena deaths are roughly equivalent to the number of kills, then the plane doesn't unbalance anything. You don't perk a plane just because it is popular, that is my point.

For a furballer I manage quite a variety of flying. I will defend bases, attack them, and sometimes just lone-wolf looking for scalps. I find 1C's low near bases or CV's for the most part, just where you'd expect them to be. They are ground attack a/c. When I lone wolf I see as many or more 109's and stangs.

Now you'll tell me it doesn't matter how the 1C is used, only that it accounts for 20% of the kills- I say it makes every bit the difference, because with play tipped towards strat you are going to see more use of base capture, you know, the winning side gets perk points?   The 1C is the best ground attack plane, ergo if you want to take real estate you take the 1C. To make this very simple for you, strat forces the increased usage of the 1C. Are you against strat?

As to the 190 comment, the point seems to have eluded you. I don't care which 190 you fly, or even if you fly them at all. I wanted you to see that the plane you have championed for so long had about as much impact on the war as the plane you seemingly detest. Your little comment "suggesting" I fly "the real F4U" was an insult.

Yes, flying around with a notepad on my lap counting the number of F4U's I see sounds like exactly the way I like to spend my free time...  

[This message has been edited by Kieren (edited 02-16-2001).]

[RAM]

 

Originally posted by Kieren:

As to the 190 comment, the point seems to have eluded you.

and you missed this----------->

 

[SOB]

 

Posted by RAM
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree that Chog is not the best plane in the set. But I dont care, HTC (pyro) said clearly that their standards for perking planes were to avoid unballancing the main arena. IMO the Nik and Chog DO unballance the arena.

And I respect your opinion, though I don't share it.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sorry, but you dont only disagree with me, but with Pyro. This is a thing stated by himself on the first thread about perking the F4U1-C.

If this is true, post a quote or a link to where Pyro said it.  The only thing I've seen from Pyro is that the F4U-1C is unbalancing to the Perk System.  Not the arena.  Also, I don't remember seeing a post where he said the Niki was unbalancing to anything.


SOB

[Kieren]

It still eludes you. My point is you have no right to tell me what plane is valid or not valid to fly.

[RAM]

 

Originally posted by Kieren:
It still eludes you. My point is you have no right to tell me what plane is valid or not valid to fly.

Who, me?. no, sir, read that link, its not me who said it first.

SOB, Pyro says that 20% for one plane is to stretch the perk system beyond the limits, and he talks about unbalancing planes. Extract your own conclussions.

and no, he doenst mention N1K2, but it is clear that if one plane with 20% of the kills is breaking the perk system, the N1K2 with 15% is near to do it too.

[Kieren]

 

If you love the corsair, you fly the TRUE one, the one produced in 1000s, the one that won the war in the pacific, not the 200 number bastard series that only flew for 4 months of a war already won.

Gee, sure looks like you are giving tips on which planes are valid and which aren't...

[Kieren]

Further contemplation yields this thought; you have Pyro's comments reversed, or at the least you are reversing them for your ends.

You want the 1C perked because you think it has an unfair advantage. If it ever is perked it will be because its usage is prevalent enough to cause a point disparity, that is, shooting it down would accrue so many points to the victor as it would be unbalancing to the perk system, not the arena.

[SOB]

 

Originally posted by RAM:
SOB, Pyro says that 20% for one plane is to stretch the perk system beyond the limits, and he talks about unbalancing planes. Extract your own conclussions.

I did.

 

and no, he doenst mention N1K2, but it is clear that if one plane with 20% of the kills is breaking the perk system, the N1K2 with 15% is near to do it too.

What does near have to do with anything?  You said the Niki should be perked...not with the stipulation that it reaches 20%.  You said "IMO the Nik and Chog DO unballance the arena.".  So, I guess we're back to Toad's question...what % is too much for you.  Looks like 15% is...any lower?  Or can this % situation just be chalked up to another means to further the same agenda you've had since before perk was an issue...to rid the skies of a two planes you don't like fighting or seeing?

You've got every right to your opinion, just don't hide behind your new arguments.  Just say it...

"hi, my name is RAM & I don't like the Chog and Niki.  I don't want them to be in the skies of AH anymore.  It has nothing to do with their numbers or production figures, I just don't like them and I HATE being killed by them.  I don't care if other people want to fly them, I DON'T WANT THEM IN THE GAME!"  Give it a shot, really...you may just feel better for it.  


SOB

[RAM]

 

Originally posted by Kieren:

You want the 1C perked because you think it has an unfair advantage. If it ever is perked it will be because its usage is prevalent enough to cause a point disparity, that is, shooting it down would accrue so many points to the victor as it would be unbalancing to the perk system, not the arena.

It is unbalancing for the PErk system because its unbalancing for the Main arena. Both are closely matched.

And no, I dont want the Chog perked because I think it has any "unfair advantage" (it has turbolasers ,but that owns to other topic thread). I want the Chog perked because they are everywhere on the main arena. And I'd want 190D9 perked if it was to be everywhere in the arena. Just as I would want to see 109G10 if it was seen in the numbers we see Chogs.

I have had positive K/D against chogs since tour 2. Its not that I cant kill them or that they kill me 2 much.

it is simply that to fight all the time the very same plane gets old. And with the nik happens the same. UFO FM suspects apart, weak torque effects apart, it is everywhere in the Main arena. To fight the 2 same planes almost constantly its simply too much. Gets old. Gets boring.

And yes, when they kill you at 950 yards, gets pissing   but that is the last of all my motives to want to see it perked.

[AKDejaVu]

RAM,

The stats show that only 1 out of ever 5 engagements would be against a Chog.  How do you get that they are all you see?  Or that they are all you fight?  Its stretching the truth more than you care to admit.

Those stats say the CHOG is not in 80% of the arena.  I strongly suggest you try to look for a fight there and just shut the hell up.

AKDejaVu

[RAM]

 

Originally posted by AKDejaVu:
Those stats say the CHOG is not in 80% of the arena.  I strongly suggest you try to look for a fight there and just shut the hell up.

AKDejaVu

LOL! so until 80% of the kills are of Chogs you will not admit its too numerous?

hehehehe   Bah, its useless. The blue turbolaser pig is a cancer for AH. But I'm not the one to say if it is going to be perked or not,that is true.  

[Kieren]

Ram, you must be aware that we have read this stuff from you for a long time. First it is the Hispanos, then it is the f/m, then it is the numbers...

You've had it bad for the 1C since its inception, so drop the charade of caring about its numbers; that is only your latest line. You were on about it before the perk system, before it saw such widespread usage, probably from the first moment one blew you right outta yer luftwaffe preference du jour. Even that wouldn't bug me, but you won't let a single thread that merely mentions aircraft or gameplay go without sticking in a snide comment about "turbo lasers". You're becoming like one of those protesters on TV, the ones that have the sign and stand behind the newscaster trying to get the sign on camera.

[This message has been edited by Kieren (edited 02-16-2001).]

[Toad]

...ah go to work and you miss the fun.

Well I'll save you any more of my...what was it..."rhetoric and demagogy"..

Main Entry: rhet·o·ric
Pronunciation: 're-t&-rik
Function: noun
1 : the art of speaking or writing effectively:

Why thank you! A lovely compliment!  

Main Entry: dem·a·gogue
Variant(s): or dem·a·gog /'de-m&-"gäg/
Function: noun
1 : a leader who makes use of popular prejudices and false claims and promises in order to gain power
2 : a leader championing the cause of the common people in ancient times

I'm sure you are referring to me with respect to the 2nd definition and again I thank you for the lovely compliment!

Now if you yourself would just stop being a demagogue of the FIRST definition, perhaps you could contribute positively to some of these discussions.   I'd say your F4U-1C rants fit the first definition EXACTLY.  
 
I'll just observe that's it's pretty obvious more than one person around here sees you as a strutting little dictator, bent on imposing your idea of a "correct" planeset on every one else.

"True F4U / True 190"  ROFLMAO! Both of these aircraft were essentially insignificant when compared to the total production run of the type. Months in service is another red herring, especially considering the condition of the LW in the last four months of the war. At least your incredible bias is showing through for all to see.