Author Topic: Gun jam option, perhaps?  (Read 1170 times)

Offline Virage

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Gun jam option, perhaps?
« Reply #60 on: January 11, 2001, 02:32:00 AM »
There are many features of a realistic flight sim that are hurdles for a new player, why shouldn't gun jams be one of them.  If it is something the pilots of WWII had to deal with then I would like to see it modeled.  
JG11

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Offline Kweassa

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Gun jam option, perhaps?
« Reply #61 on: January 11, 2001, 05:26:00 AM »

 Quite shocking to see how people would react to some of mere "suggestions", it seems. Somehow this little suggestion I made has been caught between things beyond my knowledge(or power I guess) - like the ongoing battle between "pro-amerikaners" and "anti-amerikaners".

 As I stated before, the information I got was from a historian, and his credibility to my judgement seemed acceptable enough. Sort of makes me wonder - the levels of hostility from those "elites" who can quote some astounding things against a "dweeb" like me.

 Dunno, I myself never claimed which thing/gun was better. The debate was long hot before I ever started this post. I inquired about it, got an answer and made a (naive perhaps?) suggestion which might present some negotiable solution between these "warring" factions. Why, it even smells like some of you people are suggesting that we all have to have near-encyclopedic knowledge about aircraft from A to Z to make one, single, small, short sentenced, damn suggestion. If one "hears a story" and "says something about it" without "he himself having encyclopedic knowledge" one does get branded the bad bad mark, no? (Well, for one thing, I never knew that the  ' " ' quotation mark was supposed to be used for quoting 'books' exclusively. Have they changed something about grammar thingies? Well if one might ask a clarification on this matter, I inquired it via little something called 'e-mail' and he answered it on a public messageboard we use. I read that, didn't I?)

 --

 Well, anyway, it seems the two "factions" are each asking for data and facts. They both show the facts and both claim each other's facts aren't acceptable. Real-life pilot's stories are just stories and can't be trusted. Fine, then who do we trust? I myself often thought the statistics on "paper" never were truthful to the real life, too. Why bother even asking each other for "facts" when you guys aren't gonna listen to each other anyway?

 --

 What I still wanna know(and what you guys still haven't answered, not even giving it a bit of consideration since you guys are so busy warring each other about who's the more "Brains" about aircraft knowledge) is..

 would putting in some gun jams or lowering the gun accuracy of notorious planes just a little teensey bit affect the game play so much that you guys who love the chog wanna give the whole thing up and shout "you anti-American conspirators!" ?

 wouldn't modeling gun jams increase the tension and stimulation of gameplay to tolerable limits(if putting it in only "book-claimed" chog 20mms or Hispanos seems too unfair, how about putting it generally?)?

 ..

 

Pepino

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Gun jam option, perhaps?
« Reply #62 on: January 11, 2001, 06:06:00 AM »
Thks for the heads up Kweassa. Seems like anything anyone can possibly post over here goes over C-Hogs and Hispanos. And I am guilty as hell of doing that  

What about a poll with regards to Gun Jams?

Personally, I am all for it. But Gun Jam repairable at rearm/refuel pads.

Cheers,

Pepe

Offline Vermillion

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Gun jam option, perhaps?
« Reply #63 on: January 11, 2001, 06:39:00 AM »
Sorry Kweassa I don't buy it.

You walk in here in your first three posts and open up with a flamethrower, and then wonder why you get singed? And then you use the "poor little new guy versus the big bad elitist know it all" routine.

Whats your handle in the arena? I checked Kweassa, but it doesn't have any record of a score.

The entire way you have represented yourself in this thread, screams to me that "Kweassa" is most likely a alias for someone else, who has had a hand in this continuing running battle over half-truths and out right lies on this subject.

Who is this historian you keep quoting? Please share your source with us.

The reason I ask is that thru my years as a aviation enthusiast, I have met a few true experts in this field and participated in discussions with them directly in person or thru mediums such as this BBS. Usually they are quite frank and open about who they are, and what their qualifications are.

You say you never claimed that your initial statement supported either side, but thats patently false. Especially when someone considers the fact that you made a statement, which you represented as a "quote" from an expert, but it turns out it was neither (at least that you've proven yet) which "proved" one sides point. But then you retract your point by saying it was from someone else, and you can't be blamed for not having "encyclopedic knowledge" of the subject.

Sorry, but I can't feel sorry for a person that walks up to a campfire and dumps a can of gasoline on it, and then wonders why they got burned.



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Offline Hooligan

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Gun jam option, perhaps?
« Reply #64 on: January 11, 2001, 10:00:00 AM »
Geez RAM, how many more fake identities are you going to create so that you can agree with yourself on the BBS?

Hooligan

Offline Ripsnort

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Gun jam option, perhaps?
« Reply #65 on: January 11, 2001, 10:04:00 AM »
Kweassa, what is your online handle?

Offline Westy

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Gun jam option, perhaps?
« Reply #66 on: January 11, 2001, 10:18:00 AM »
 I'd pay Verm to give me lessons on how he does, what he does, so well.

-Westy

Offline Pongo

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Gun jam option, perhaps?
« Reply #67 on: January 11, 2001, 10:31:00 AM »
I definatly aggree that the 50 and the cannons are alot more level in AH now. And that the flavour of the damage they inflict is much more like would be expected. I often make the mistake of thinking of our original Hispano version when I look for info about it. But of course it has been tweeked alot and made much more reasonable in its effectiveness....
But thats not as interesting to talk about..
 

Offline Maverick

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Gun jam option, perhaps?
« Reply #68 on: January 11, 2001, 02:40:00 PM »
Modeling gun jams and other "random failures" is a solution in desperate search of a problem.

Mav
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Offline mrfish

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Gun jam option, perhaps?
« Reply #69 on: January 11, 2001, 03:56:00 PM »
hmmmm.....seems like a "game vs. sim" argument really

- guns jammed in reality - due to design or because of overuse and g-loading -

- if it happened in reality, and AH is a simulation of reality, then it should be there whether it is fun that it happens or not -

- if AH is a 'game' then it isnt necessary...in fact it is a liability if it just frustrates players  -

most people see it as a gray area between the 2 extremes, most people want a 'realistic game' in other words: real fm's loadouts and specifications but the option to try fun combinations of engagements- after all p51's didnt go up against f4us in reality either

- but if you want ultimate realism you can't just model what you like - a complete model of reality would be sometimes boring, frustrating and/or unfair

- i personally would like to see it modeled because i like realism, but AH is a community of hundreds! i think htc could pull it off pretty well but i imagine it would just give whiners something new to whine about when they get shot down - so if it doesnt get modeled i wont go stomp  



Offline Vermillion

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Gun jam option, perhaps?
« Reply #70 on: January 11, 2001, 04:03:00 PM »
I'm not specifically against gun jams, I'm really ambivalent on the subject. I couldn't care either way.

What I can't stand is the crap like "Hispano's jammed all the time and the MG151 was the most realiable gun every built."

BullPuckey!

All guns jammed, period. Its just a matter of how often, and finding the information that give the data you need to model such a thing.

"Give me the facts Sir, and only the Facts"
--Dragnet


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Offline Pongo

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Gun jam option, perhaps?
« Reply #71 on: January 12, 2001, 09:01:00 AM »
So Kwassa. You are lieing. Quite pathetic.
Quite desperate.
Hint. If you want to pass something of as historical, maybe make it less then the perfect quote.

The cronology is quite interesting.
First post
"Maybe realistic gun-jam options might help
all this discontent over F4U-1C. From what
I read, it says here:
" During the war the
"
Then by RAM

"I find funny that after many people here have asked for this quote, begged for this quote, refused to admit things until they saw a quote like this, laughed saying that they would only believe the unreliability of the hispano when they saw some quote like this...
I find funny, I say, that after 4 hours of this quote in the forum there is almost no answer from the Hardcore Pro-Hispano AH lobby. Except Ripsnort, of course

can you imagine opening pandora's box on reliability?

"

I guess you have your response RAM. What kind of support for change in AH is a big fat fabricated lie. That you apperently support whole heartedly.


Offline SKurj

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Gun jam option, perhaps?
« Reply #72 on: January 12, 2001, 09:10:00 AM »
Mebbe this argument errr discussion sorry, can be carried into an Eleet arena some day.  Where yas can all argue all ya want.  Some of the above feature requests will hurt membership, therefore.. not gonna happen when its a one arena sim.

Nuff said

AKskurj