Author Topic: WINDSHEAR - WINDSHEAR alert  (Read 724 times)

Offline GADGET

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WINDSHEAR - WINDSHEAR alert
« on: January 09, 2001, 05:00:00 AM »
Although wind presence in the arena is desirable, mostly to simulate crosswind takeoffs and landings, and for navigation purposes, the utility in the general game is doubtful.

With ver 1.04 we had several annoying overlapping wind layers at 10k and 20k, but once passed the 1.000 feet transition, flight was ok, so we could live with it.

But 1.05 come, and with it an "improved" wind model that simulates more wind layers at (I will try to remember all) 6k, 12k, 18k, etc... with a 1000-2000 feet overlapping, so what we have now is a continuous turbulence in the AH atmosphere, caused for this windshear effect, every 5000 feet or less.

Based on my 7000 flight hours in real planes, I can affirm that real atmosphere does not behave this way, except in rare situations. Windshear can be found in certain places (Colorado for the US residents, Canary Islands and Swiss Alps for Europeans) due to their specific orography and local winds, and also in certain situations such as in the vicinity of large thunderstorm cells or at the sides of a jetstream. This abnormal situations is what we perpetually have now in AH. This is something that real pilots would qualify as MODERATE WINDSHEAR and that otherwise would make certain operations such as takeoff and landing hazardous.

Thanks to HT and their programers, we do not have this nasty effect at ground level, but we do have it (oh boy we do have it) at altitudes commonly chosen for combat. In my opinion this is VERY ANNOYING, making the aiming of the guns over the target short of impossible, and producing a total loss of control in some occasions. Here we go in our Mustang, Fw.190A-8, or whatever plane that necessarily uses the vertical plane, cruising at, for instance, 8k. We find a Spitfire HO closing fast, so we decide for a vertical lead turn at a reasonable distance, passing vertically through the wind layers....but at the summit of the maneuver we find that the plane behaves strangely and we either:

1) overcontrol the rudder, elevator and/or ailerons to keep our fighter in the desired trajectory, that is pointing towards the target, while approaching the stall zone fast and our plane plane  falls out of control spinning...
2) can not possibly hit our intended target due to the oscillations produced by the windshear, and we spend our last 200 rounds in the empty air.

That is enough... we want this windshear thing OFF until fixed or otherwise changed completely for a more realistically modeling. Those of you that might agree with me, please address HT when found online and ask him to turn WINDSHEAR OFF.

Thx all.

Faithfully at your 6

GADGET




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Offline Swoop

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« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2001, 05:08:00 AM »
Oh God yes, I agree totally.

Swoop

Offline Duckwing6

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« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2001, 05:23:00 AM »
I have to agree that the angular difference and the speed difference between the wind layers is way to high .. and the transitional effect not smooth enough .. it was better in 1.04 where AFAIK the transitional layer was wider .. maybe a combination of the following could help:

a)  Have the wind layers with wider transition boundaries

b) have a realistic speed increase and direction change with altitude

What i mean is that unless you have special weather conditions (like Foehn in the alps or Mistral in France...) where strong wind bands are involved (or the jet stream is at extremely low altitude..) you can see usually the wind direction changes by some 30 - 50 degrees from the ground to 20.000 feet with a speed pickup of around 20-30kts .. (at least here in central europe)

and the change will be gradual in the oepen atmosphere unless disturbed by terrain..

DW6

Pepino

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WINDSHEAR - WINDSHEAR alert
« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2001, 05:54:00 AM »
Seconded.

Pepe

Offline maik

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« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2001, 06:38:00 AM »
agreed!

Offline Ripsnort

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« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2001, 07:36:00 AM »
Agreed!  

Offline Mayhem

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« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2001, 07:45:00 AM »
dam i havne't noticed it much I jsut thought my rudder pedals were slipping or I was to drunk (most cases I was)

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Offline Wardog

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« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2001, 09:35:00 AM »
Sorry..

But i like it!!

Nothing affect a fight more than little surprises in a fight, and wind sheer is 1 of them. But it affect both pilots in a fight, so no advantage to either. Just plain fun..

Prefer wind as it is now. Wether it mimics real conditions or not, i like it!!

Dog out.......

Offline Voss

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WINDSHEAR - WINDSHEAR alert
« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2001, 09:45:00 AM »
Hmm,...

Maybe if HT just changed it so you had some warning as to its presence? Say, move the windshear local to clouds?

I, for one, would love to see a particle system within the cloud base, anyway. You know, a vertical column of air moving at 40-150mph?  

Voss 13th T.A.S.

Offline Ripsnort

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« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2001, 09:48:00 AM »
As far as ground wind speed, we've gone full circle back to the post about needing a windsock on the runways to show wind direction.

Offline jedi

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« Reply #10 on: January 09, 2001, 10:00:00 AM »
Winds aloft rarely make "drastic" changes in speed or direction.  This is something that's more likely close to the ground.  How bout just a steady state wind on the ground (variably 5, 10, or 15 mph, set each day or each week or whatever) and then vary the wind 10 degrees and 5 mph each thousand feet or so?

Kinda like real wind.

If you want to build in "turbulence," that's fine, but unless you're talking about pretty severe "clear air turbulence" which would make fighting impossible, it really won't add any "immersion" to the game.  

If you want to add some realism that would actually make a difference, add wingtip vortex and propwash slipstream from the aircraft ahead of you.  A 109 50 yards behind a bomb-laden P-47 would have some nasty surprises in store, aiming-wise.  Being right behind a B-17 would be even worse.

And be careful with that 7000 hours stuff Gadget--you're arguing with SIM pilots here!  There's nothing you "know" that they can't "disprove."  

Offline Westy

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« Reply #11 on: January 09, 2001, 10:05:00 AM »
 If there is no wind at ground level then we do not need a windsock. They didn't have them at 10k or 20k and if wind is modelled right we should just have to deal with it. I would rather a tab on the clipboard with a weather report reflecting conditions on my take off.

 I personally like the wind feature. It 'add's to the online experience and is no way turbulant' nor something that takes a massive effort to have to handle.  If what AH has is not a close representation of the real effect then help HTC correct it.  The days of no wind, sunny days with perfect temperature and humidity in online sims are old and should be improved upon. HTC has brought us clouds and we also have wind. Help them work in AH. Please don't ask for thier removals for their effect is not as drastic as some may make it sound.

 -Westy

 

Offline Toad

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« Reply #12 on: January 09, 2001, 10:50:00 AM »
I agree with Gadget, Duckwing and Jedi.

The present wind model is, well ..."overmodeled".  
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Offline NUTTZ

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« Reply #13 on: January 09, 2001, 10:55:00 AM »
My first 5 flights ended in total plane control lose and an auger. I noticed i loose it at a few different alts and I asked on channel 1 if anyone was getting a "wind shear effect" at 14k and a few responded with a yes. Let me tell you the one i get at 14k is NASTY!!! I fly a jabo jug with 75% fuel ,, climbing out it's near impossible ( notice i say near) not to auger, I'm at stall warning as it is, passing 3 or 4 wind shears is not very funny. Also i wish we were warned, rather than Many thinking our controllers were porked with 1.05. Until this thread i was still thinking of reinstalling the software
NUTTZ

Offline GADGET

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WINDSHEAR - WINDSHEAR alert
« Reply #14 on: January 09, 2001, 12:31:00 PM »
For those of you that think that I don't want wind... don't take me wrong, I would love to have wind. But I want a realistically behavior of wind and its layers, not what we have now.

Don't make mistakes here... windshear is not necessarily turbulence, but a drastically difference in speed and/or direction of two wind layers...what we actually have. Although planes move in the air mass, and have no relative wind in their motion (unless you measure it from the ground), crossing layers of wind with different speeds and/or directions is the same as increasing/decreasing airspeed. Now guys...look at your anemometers when crossing this layers and tell me what you see? And your vertical speed indicators?...

Now this is windshear, no regular wind nor turbulence. In the wrong conditions windshear can down a plane, or induce a stall, spin or loss of control somehow. And guys... we have plenty.

GADGET



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101 Escuadrón de Combate Virtual