Author Topic: Day fighting? psst... read on.  (Read 239 times)

Nath-BDP

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Day fighting? psst... read on.
« on: October 14, 2000, 02:28:00 AM »
After reading "German Night Fighter Aces of WW2" by Jerry Scutts, I had a revilation.

I beleive that the new frontier for World War II sims is night fighting, after reading the book mentioned above I was amazed at the losses that the RAF suffered--they made the 8th and 9th Air Force losses seem pale.  For example, during a raid on Nuremburg on the night of March 30/31 1944 the RAF suffered a loss of 95 Halifaxes and Lancasters, in a span from March to July 1943 the RAF lost 1,000 aircraft.  I am startled at how many losses of aircraft and airmen the RAF suffered and still, the Schweinfurt/Regensburg and Ploesti raids are still the most remembered air raid disasters ever in the minds of most WW2 aviation enthusiasts.  In terms of bombers lost.

The success of Nachtjagd pilots are impressive as well.  I will not going into detail on the score or tactics used by Nachtjagd pilots, since its not the point of this post.  I will state, however, that I am starting to have more respect for the Nachtjagd pilots than the day fighter pilots.  One reason would be that the Nachtjagd were mostly fighting to defend the families and cities that were being devistated by the RAF.

Anyway, the point...

I think HTC should realy think about starting to model dedicated night fighter aircraft and making nightfighting as equal in features and gameplay as the current day fighting is.  This would definatly put HTC ahead of the crowd, Wb3, AW4 and I don't think WW2OL even has a night air war planned.

Aircraft that could be modeled would be:

P-61 Black Widow was used from the beginning of 44 with great success, at first it was used in anti-V1 sorties.

D.H. 98 XIX Mosse was one of the fastest night fighters of the war and spawned some of the highest ranking British night fighter aces.

Do 219 was the arch rival of the D.H. 98 XIX.  The 219 or 'Owl' began to see service in the spring of 1943 and make an immediate impact on the Nachjagd leadership.  The 219 suffered many engine problems though, but it was fast and could get the job done.

The above 3 would complete the late-war uber night fighters.  Below are aircraft that made up the heart of the Nachtjagd and RAF bomber command.

The classic Bf-110.  It was the first Luftwaffe aircraft to carry radar into battle, the Lichtenstein FuG 212.  The highest ranking Nachtjagd pilot, Heinz Wolfgang Schnaufer with a total of 121 victores flew the BF 110 exclusivly.


The Ju-88 series, C-6, need I say more?

Do 215

Do 17

Handley Page Halifax was used along with the Lancaster for night operations after Mid 43 when the last of the early-war RAF bombers was retired.

Consider it...

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IV.(Sturm)/JG 3 "Udet"

[This message has been edited by Nath-BDP (edited 10-14-2000).]

Offline juzz

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Day fighting? psst... read on.
« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2000, 06:16:00 AM »
Aces High graphics aren't good enough for night fighting. I'd say no flight sim engine yet is good enough. Although, maybe Il-2 is.

Besides, to do it properly would be alot of work. Radar modelling is something that even jet sims don't do realistically.

[This message has been edited by juzz (edited 10-14-2000).]

Nath-BDP

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Day fighting? psst... read on.
« Reply #2 on: October 15, 2000, 03:11:00 AM »
punt

Offline Replicant

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Day fighting? psst... read on.
« Reply #3 on: October 15, 2000, 03:21:00 AM »
I was reading something last week (can't remember from which book) that the Soviets lost either 1300 or 1800 (can't remember which!!) in ONE day against the Luftwaffe.  Now that is frightening.

Regards

'Nexx'
NEXX

Offline kfsone

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Day fighting? psst... read on.
« Reply #4 on: October 15, 2000, 05:13:00 AM »
Night fighting and night bombing would really involve the use of the moon; you really need some kind of light source, you'd also need stars, and on a 19" or smaller monitor your chances of spotting a fighter against the stars if very very slim.

You'd need people to give up flying and go ATC to guide you in to where you even stand a chance of seeing the targets.

For most people, it's not going to work - and I don't think HTC are going to want to split the arenas up until the flying population increases.

I've love to fly nights, but I don't think we (the general computing public) are ready or equipped for it yet =)


K


Offline juzz

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Day fighting? psst... read on.
« Reply #5 on: October 20, 2000, 10:00:00 AM »
On second thought maybe AH could do the early-war stuff, before airborne radar was in widespread use.

You could have a USAAF buff mission timed to finish at night - then the LW could run intruder missions over the bomber airbases in Ju 88's and Bf 110's etc, and the RAF could try and fight them off with Hurricanes and Beaufighters.

Offline Ripsnort

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Day fighting? psst... read on.
« Reply #6 on: October 20, 2000, 10:03:00 AM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by juzz:
Aces High graphics aren't good enough for night fighting. I'd say no flight sim engine yet is good enough. Although, maybe Il-2 is.

[This message has been edited by juzz (edited 10-14-2000).]

Juzz, you keep saying that, could you explain what you mean?


Offline GRUNHERZ

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Day fighting? psst... read on.
« Reply #7 on: October 20, 2000, 02:14:00 PM »
I think he means it be impossible to see any plane at night withot the use of icons which would then make night fighting pointless.

Offline SKurj

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Day fighting? psst... read on.
« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2000, 06:58:00 PM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by Replicant:
I was reading something last week (can't remember from which book) that the Soviets lost either 1300 or 1800 (can't remember which!!) in ONE day against the Luftwaffe.  Now that is frightening.

Regards

'Nexx'

The majority of which were caught on the GROUND!!!

SKurj


Offline juzz

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Day fighting? psst... read on.
« Reply #9 on: October 20, 2000, 09:44:00 PM »
Ripsnort; Aces High doesn't have dynamic lighting - so it can't have exhaust flames, muzzle flashes, searchlights, flares etc. lighting up the aircraft. This sort of stuff would have to be the basics for realistic visibility at night.

Frosty1

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Day fighting? psst... read on.
« Reply #10 on: October 21, 2000, 12:14:00 PM »
juzz, I hate to piss on your parade, but can dynamic lighting be put in? Why yes, yes of course! Since the engine uses the Direct X API it should be relatively simple to implement. From what I've seen a lot of pretty features could be put in relatively easily, such a dynamic shadows that cast over the models and 8 pass shadows that can create pretty little blurred edges. kthnx  

Offline Fariz

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Day fighting? psst... read on.
« Reply #11 on: October 21, 2000, 01:19:00 PM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by Frosty1:
juzz, I hate to piss on your parade, but can dynamic lighting be put in? Why yes, yes of course! Since the engine uses the Direct X API it should be relatively simple to implement

...and lose 3/4 of the custemers due to the dramatic lose of fps?

This game has lot of compromises in its graphix implementation due to this reason. And let me say this, I will be happy about  trees, vilages, bridges and night fights if I will get my 30fps on my old tnt2 16mb.

Fariz

ezdoc

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Day fighting? psst... read on.
« Reply #12 on: October 21, 2000, 01:25:00 PM »
This is a great idea.

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ezdoc
48th Fighter Group "Checkertails"