Nationalist? Is this bad?

[Leslie]

Originally posted by Sandman
Welcome to the internet where we can engage on a daily basis in the exchange of ideas with PEOPLE from other countries and other cultures.

Our fathers and our grandfathers called them "foreigners". Today, though we may disagree and we struggle with cultural differences, they are no longer foreigners. They are our friends.

Welcome to the future. It may not be during yours or your children's lifetime, but someday historians will look back at the internet as the beginning of the end for nationalism and the birth of globalism.

Sometimes I can't tell if your being sarcastic or not Sandman.   You want globalism, loss of individuality in culture?  To me, that's worth fighting for, rugged individualism that is.  Who the heck wants to be a slave?  This is like a nighmarish episode of Sliders, where the world could be like that.  You want that really?

But you're probably right, imo unfortunately so.  If and when that happens, there will be many terrible wars to stop it.  We're doomed if globilization happens.   You think there'll be open discussion on the internet about personal opinions?  Guess it's OK long as no feathers get ruffled, or fur gets rubbed the wrong way.  What you describe Sandy is a utopia.  If it worked.  The reality is, some foreighners are friends and some aren't.  They're just like anybody else when it comes to getting along with each other.

I would hope they would consider me the same way if I visited their country.  Not very likely I'm afraid, unless I watched my P's and Q's very closely.  




Les

[Holden McGroin]

Originally posted by Leslie
(...)  You want globalism, loss of individuality in culture?(...)  But you're probably right, imo unfortunately so.  If and when that happens, there will be many terrible wars to stop it.  We're doomed if globilization happens.

McDonalds in New Delhi, Paris, Moscow, Bejing, Ottumwa, Rio.

Disney in Anahiem, Tokyo, Paris, Orlando.

Hollywood everywhere.

Globalization is here.  We don't see it as clearly as someone from the Czech Republic, because the dominant culture driving  globalization is ours.

The fear of western culture overtaking local culture is a large part of the driving force behind Islamic extremism.

[Leslie]

Yes you're right Holden McGroin, but nationalism is everywhere.   Much Puerto Rican poetry and theater focuses on the theme of nationalism.  

Nationalism was forced on artists in Cuba, and many of them quit or disappeared, rather than write glory to the revolucion  It got to where Cuban theater was even worse than Batista's broadway shows, which is one of the things Castro didn't like and wanted rid of.  With the Theater of the Absurd, Cuba was breaking serious theatrical ground and began to look at the abstract and surrealistic part of humanity.  After that purge, all theater had to bow to the state, completely destroying the arts in Cuba.  That would be something to find out about, because to my knowledge, nothing has been written about it lately.  






Les

[Dinger]

Nationalism is an often-abused word, which many on this board, if they understood its true significance, would apply to themselves.
Socialism is an often-abused label, which many on this board, if they understood its true significance, would apply to themselves.
Therefore, you're all a bunch of national socialists.

[Fishu]

There would be no USA without nationalism.

...nor a bunch of others.

[Fishu]

Originally posted by GScholz
Actually the USA was founded on libertarianism, not nationalism. The British were the nationalists back then. However during the American Civil War libertarianism was defeated by the nationalistic northern states.

I didn't mean the 'founding' part..  natioalism is what keeps the countries together.
Level of nationalism just differs.
One doesn't need to be chanting "deutsche �ber alles" to be nationalistic, but could as well celebrate the national day by raising a flag - that alone is natioalism.

[Holden McGroin]

Originally posted by GScholz
Actually the USA was founded on libertarianism, not nationalism. The British were the nationalists back then. However during the American Civil War libertarianism was defeated by the nationalistic northern states.

As the society (esp. the economy) of the southern states at the time of the civil war was based upon racial subjugation, I do not agree with its characterization as libertarian.

[Leslie]

Originally posted by Holden McGroin
As the society (esp. the economy) of the southern states at the time of the civil war was based upon racial subjugation, I do not agree with its characterization as libertarian.

You mean based on agriculture, don't you Holden?



Les

[cpxxx]

Generalisations all:

Nationalists will kill for their country.

Patriots will die for their country.  

A nationalist will do anything to make their country greater.

A patriot will do anything to make their country better.  

Nationalists think their country is the greatest on earth.

Patriots wish it were true and do their best to make it so.

Nationalists don't really like foreigners in their country.

Patriots want those foreigners to become citizens.

Nationalists will invade another country and make it theirs.

Patriots will invade a country taken by Nationalists and give it back.

Nationalists have trouble telling the difference between love of their country and their leaders.

Patriots love their country and may hate the government.

Nationalists want the nation to be the best.

Patriots want what is best for the people.

[Sandman]

Originally posted by Leslie
Sometimes I can't tell if your being sarcastic or not Sandman.   You want globalism, loss of individuality in culture?  To me, that's worth fighting for, rugged individualism that is.  Who the heck wants to be a slave?  This is like a nighmarish episode of Sliders, where the world could be like that.  You want that really?

But you're probably right, imo unfortunately so.  If and when that happens, there will be many terrible wars to stop it.  We're doomed if globilization happens.   You think there'll be open discussion on the internet about personal opinions?  Guess it's OK long as no feathers get ruffled, or fur gets rubbed the wrong way.  What you describe Sandy is a utopia.  If it worked.  The reality is, some foreighners are friends and some aren't.  They're just like anybody else when it comes to getting along with each other.

I would hope they would consider me the same way if I visited their country.  Not very likely I'm afraid, unless I watched my P's and Q's very closely.  




Les

I wasn't speaking of want... just an observation.. and it's not necessarily a utopian one. Globalism will pave the way for corporatism.

[-dead-]

Until you've met and talked to your entire nation, nationalism is a fairly nonsensical generalization and may lead you to dangerous - and very sloppy - thinking, in as far as it is divorced from actual subjective reality.  

Such is the way of most sweeping generalizations. Let's not forget that the average American has only one testicle.

Most of the people on this board have more in common with each other, regardless of nationality, than with the majority of their "nation", who - let's face it - they've never actually talked to at all.

I've met lots of people from my nation who I hate, and lots from other nations who I like. It seems to me that the people of any nationality, if you talk to them, rather than exert a sense of nationalism, is made up of more or less the same mix of people I like and people I hate. Why then elevate any particular group as better - especially one that will inevitably include a larger number of people you hate?

Much better to treat everyone on a case by case basis, and throw the whole nationalism thing out as the dangerous nonsense it is.