Author Topic: Japan to become permanent member of UN council?  (Read 894 times)

Offline Nash

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Japan to become permanent member of UN council?
« Reply #15 on: September 23, 2004, 11:04:25 PM »
rgr just checked - got it - will respond tmrw.

Offline GRUNHERZ

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Japan to become permanent member of UN council?
« Reply #16 on: September 23, 2004, 11:56:16 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Nash
What's with the attitude?

Frankly, I'd be a little pissed about some punk trying to give me his completely narrowly informed opinion about something I happened to, like, live and work in.

But Rolex wasn't pissed. It was a polite slap-down. Don't give him 'what's up with the attitude"... merely be thankful for the suggestion, and quit before you get hurt.


His response had a bad attitide, not as bad your here but bad still.

I was curious why.

If he knows so much from his time in Japan then he is welcome to share it and discuss..

But go ahead nash get in yiur little insult... :rofl
« Last Edit: September 24, 2004, 12:06:57 AM by GRUNHERZ »

Offline lazs2

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Japan to become permanent member of UN council?
« Reply #17 on: September 24, 2004, 09:00:36 AM »
we should pull out and let em have our seat and.... move the whole UN complex to japan.

lazs

Offline Rolex

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Japan to become permanent member of UN council?
« Reply #18 on: September 24, 2004, 09:32:48 AM »
"In a startling announcement today, the UN revealed that it plans on moving all facilities and operations to Dixon, California. The city council voted to financially support the move by increasing the property taxes of all Dixon homeowners and levying an additional $1,000 annual tax on each firearm owned by local residents.

Dixon Mayor Mary Ann Courville also announced that local government employees will forfeit 30% of their annual salaries to help pay for this unprecedented opportunity to place Dixon on the world map."

Offline mosgood

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Japan to become permanent member of UN council?
« Reply #19 on: September 24, 2004, 09:43:46 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Rolex
"In a startling announcement today, the UN revealed that it plans on moving all facilities and operations to Dixon, California. The city council voted to financially support the move by increasing the property taxes of all Dixon homeowners and levying an additional $1,000 annual tax on each firearm owned by local residents.

Dixon Mayor Mary Ann Courville also announced that local government employees will forfeit 30% of their annual salaries to help pay for this unprecedented opportunity to place Dixon on the world map."


LOL  that was awesome!

 Soooo... why would we want more countries in the SC?  Taking a view on whats best for our country here.... why do we want to increase the vetoing dynamics?  Not being agrumentitive.... don't understand.

Offline Otto

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Japan to become permanent member of UN council?
« Reply #20 on: September 24, 2004, 10:08:37 AM »
"we should pull out and let em have our seat and.... move the whole UN complex to japan.

lazs"

I respectfully disagree.  A far better location would be Rwanda.

Offline Rolex

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Japan to become permanent member of UN council?
« Reply #21 on: September 24, 2004, 10:21:17 AM »
Well, not everyone here (or in the world) is from your country, mosgood... :)

But, I can appreciate your point that self-interest determines all positions. And that is the singlemost debilitating pressure limiting the legitimacy and potential good the UN could achieve.

Japan feels that since it pays 19.5% of the UN budget, it should have permanent member status and at least a little influence how, or where, it is spent. Only the U.S. pays more - 22%. That isn't much of a spread considering that the U.S. GDP is 50% larger and the population is double.

For the U.S., Japan permanent membership would result in a stronger position since Japan-American interests are more closely aligned than any other combination. The U.S. and Japan together are 50% of the global GDP. Economic strength used properly can tame an adversary or create an ally just as effectively as conflict.

The current lineup of UNSC membership and even the charter is woefully outdated and still reflects the world condition from the end of WWII through the cold war. Japan and Germany are technically considered to still be enemy states and the Soviet Union is still recognized by the UN charter.

Bringing about a reorganized UNSC with influence appropriate to current world conditions is the last best hope the UN has to exist and be potentially useful. I think a rational restructure of the UN should be explored because a legitimate, useful and meaningful UN is better than no world forum.

Offline mosgood

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Japan to become permanent member of UN council?
« Reply #22 on: September 24, 2004, 12:33:44 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Rolex
Well, not everyone here (or in the world) is from your country, mosgood... :)

But, I can appreciate your point that self-interest determines all positions. And that is the singlemost debilitating pressure limiting the legitimacy and potential good the UN could achieve.

Japan feels that since it pays 19.5% of the UN budget, it should have permanent member status and at least a little influence how, or where, it is spent. Only the U.S. pays more - 22%. That isn't much of a spread considering that the U.S. GDP is 50% larger and the population is double.

For the U.S., Japan permanent membership would result in a stronger position since Japan-American interests are more closely aligned than any other combination. The U.S. and Japan together are 50% of the global GDP. Economic strength used properly can tame an adversary or create an ally just as effectively as conflict.

The current lineup of UNSC membership and even the charter is woefully outdated and still reflects the world condition from the end of WWII through the cold war. Japan and Germany are technically considered to still be enemy states and the Soviet Union is still recognized by the UN charter.

Bringing about a reorganized UNSC with influence appropriate to current world conditions is the last best hope the UN has to exist and be potentially useful. I think a rational restructure of the UN should be explored because a legitimate, useful and meaningful UN is better than no world forum.


Thanks for that.  I didn't consider a lot of that.  Although, I don't think that a non-self-interest descision making process is possible.

Offline lazs2

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Japan to become permanent member of UN council?
« Reply #23 on: September 24, 2004, 01:42:55 PM »
rolex...  I am on prop 13 and "merry ann" would never impose a tax on guns.

oh... and omega is a superior watch.

And...  I don't care where the orientals have their UN so long as they are not allowed to drive cars in the U.S.

lazs

Offline OIO

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Japan to become permanent member of UN council?
« Reply #24 on: September 24, 2004, 02:01:12 PM »
why not? most of the US car companies are owned by 'orientals'


mwahhahaha.

Offline Stringer

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Japan to become permanent member of UN council?
« Reply #25 on: September 24, 2004, 02:11:04 PM »
Grun,
Nash is right.  That was a polite way of letting you know you were getting in over your head with Rolex on that specific subject.

Those type of polite heads-up happen all the time in business meetings.  If you hope to achieve any type of position of responsibility in that setting, coming back with "what's with the attitude" won't get it done, when you've just been given a mild "heads up".

Offline lazs2

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Japan to become permanent member of UN council?
« Reply #26 on: September 24, 2004, 02:24:03 PM »
don't care if orientals own cars... just don't want em driving them.

lazs

Offline GRUNHERZ

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Japan to become permanent member of UN council?
« Reply #27 on: September 24, 2004, 02:45:04 PM »
If Rolex wants to give me a thurough explaination why he feels the reintroduction of Kimigayo is incompatible with Kopizuimis economic and electoral reform attempts then he is welcome to do so... I would welcome his input.

Offline -dead-

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Japan to become permanent member of UN council?
« Reply #28 on: September 24, 2004, 04:13:17 PM »
The UNSC should have absolutely no permanent  members and no country should have a veto. This risible practice is probably the biggest cause of UNSC ineffectuality, and its disgracefully uneven enforcement of the UN charter.

Any country with a veto can act with impunity and break the very charter they're nominally enforcing. Giving more vetos and more permanent memberships just increases the number of countries the UN can do nothing about.

With the exception of France (who stuck strictly to the good old-fashioned imperialist goals of fighting to keep Africa and Indochina French), every veto-bearing member has invaded another country without provocation in direct contravention of the UN charter. You have to be in some seriously venal
company to have France turn out to be the most moral of the bunch.

None of them have been even been censured for these actions. Two permanent members are currently engaged in the contravention of the UN charter, according to UN Secretary General himself. Yet the UNSC is powerless to do anything. Indeed the two countries' justification for their breaking the UN charter is that the UNSC was rendered powerless to act by the veto powers of other permanent members.

So throwing more vetos at the problem is like putting out a fire with a bucket of alcohol.

It's wonderfully ironic to see some of the UN=ineffectual crowd clamouring to introduce measures to make it even more so.

Of course, if it get's left to the UNSC to decide, China will veto it, no doubt citing Japan's lack of apology for war crimes, and the curious habit that nice Mr Koizumi has of going off to honour the grave of Japan's very own Hitler - General Tojo - twice a year.
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Offline GRUNHERZ

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Japan to become permanent member of UN council?
« Reply #29 on: September 24, 2004, 04:16:09 PM »
Ahh yes, I forgot the yasukuni visits..   Japan needs to be a normal country again, let them...