Author Topic: F4U1C needs to be removed (Read 1120 times)

Ripsnort · « **Reply #45 on:** October 16, 2000, 07:28:00 AM »

If you can come with facts and data to prove that the flight model is incorrect, then I'm pretty sure HTC is open to changing it to more closely match your hards facts. You have to keep in mind that folks like F4UDOA , Lazs,and Wells DID have facts and data to prove it was NOT the correct flight model, and HTC changed it, so it's not your Daddy's porked-Four-U anymore.

Ice · « **Reply #46 on:** October 16, 2000, 09:20:00 AM »

I'm glad to see these other planes garner so much support. One of the many pleasing perks for me flying the 51 exclusively is that there are not 50 of them in the air on any given night.

Since 1.04, it seems there are less 51's in the air and more of these so called uber rides. I enjoy killing them inspite of their superiority

I tend to agree with Yeager in that perhaps it should not have been introduced into the arena in the first place....but, it's here and I doubt HTC will remove it until the perk system is in place.

It is my position that we should not expect so much from a Sim run on a PC. What HTC has done is indeed impressive and I'm grateful to toss them $30.00 a month....there is a good reason for the software side of a real flight simulator costing into the millions of dollars and I'm willing to bet that the last thing the majority here would want is true realistic flight....most would not be able to get into the air much less fly and actually kill anything

Ice

Lephturn · « **Reply #47 on:** October 16, 2000, 09:20:00 AM »

Swager,

Up the thread a ways you mentioned "F4U's with no lead on me, and the angle increasing, blow off my wing with one burst." That isn't a function of the plane itself, it's an effect of net lag. Remember, what you see on your FE and what the other fellow sees on his FE are disconnected by some period of time. What this means is that if you are watching out your rear view for the other fellow to pull lead before you evade, you will die. On your FE, you will be shot before you ever see the lead. It's the nature of the beast.

This effect is exagerated if the attacker has a high closure rate. If he is gaining on you quickly it will look even farther off, and can surprise you. Just remember that in online combat, you may die before you see the other guy even get to pure pursuit, so give yourself some extra leeway in that area.

------------------
Lephturn - Chief Trainer
A member of The Flying Pigs http://www.flyingpigs.com

"My P-47 is a pretty good ship, she took a round coming 'cross the Channel last trip.
Just thinking 'bout my baby and lettin' her rip, always got me through so far."
- Steve Earl

Minotaur · « **Reply #48 on:** October 16, 2000, 10:01:00 AM »

LOL

I was attacking the Bishop base 22 last night in an Ostwind.

I only saw 3 plane types ever took off.

B-26
C-47
F4U

That was it in about 1.5 hours

------------------
Mino
The Wrecking Crew

"Anyway, more golf..."
Humble

Karnak · « **Reply #49 on:** October 16, 2000, 10:21:00 AM »

Here is a list of each nation's top fighter or fighters as well as the Panzer IV H and Ostwind, with their K/D rate in Tour 9 of AH. I have removed each units kills vs. itself for the purposes of this comparison. Units are ranked in order of K/D, from highest to lowest. Obviously there is a HUGE difference in the frequency of use for each unit.

The Panzer IV H has 4895 kills and has been killed 2620 times for 1.87 kills per death.

The F4U-1C has 7297 kills and has been killed 4792 times for 1.52 kills per death.

The Ostwind has 7863 kills and has been killed 5744 times for 1.37 kills per death.

The Typhoon Ib has 2268 kills and has been killed 1832 times for 1.24 kills per death.

The Bf109G-10 has 2482 kills and has been killed 2089 times for 1.19 kills per death.

The N1K2 has 3968 kills and has been killed 3387 times for 1.17 kills per death.

The Fw190A-5 has 987 kills and has been killed 944 times for 1.05 kills per death.

The Yak-9U has 1190 kills and has been killed 1176 times for 1.01 kills per death.

The P-51D has 2727 kills and has been killed 2825 times for .97 kills per death.

The Spitfire MkIX has 3701 kills and has been killed 4050 times for .91 kills per death.

The C.205 has 464 kills and has been killed 654 times for .71 kills per death.

Sisu
-Karnak

Ripsnort · « **Reply #50 on:** October 16, 2000, 10:29:00 AM »

Sisu, everytime someone posts the stats, I think to meself.."Planes that don't get much attention, don't get many kills.." I.E. if everyon flew , say, the Macci 205 for a tour, it would rise to the top of the stats.

Another thing the stats don't show is how many times a plane augers trying to kill a tank, I believe 90% of my A/C kills in a tank are due to the pilot augering...

Another thing is, when folks start calling one plane type Uber, like the niki, then all the newbies start flying it, thus lowering the stats for the niki..

So much for validity of stats.

[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 10-16-2000).]

Apache · « **Reply #51 on:** October 16, 2000, 10:29:00 AM »

Quote

The F4U-1C has 7297 kills and has been killed 4792 times for 1.52 kills per death.

2318 of these kills were of Panzers, Ostwinds, M3's & M16's. The primary roll of the F4U-1C was a close ground support if I am not mistaken.
Subtracting these kills from the total leaves the F4U-1C with 4979 air to air kills.

------------------
Apache
=XO= VMF-323 Death Rattlers
VMF 323 Death Rattlers Web Site

Graywolf · « **Reply #52 on:** October 16, 2000, 11:43:00 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Minotaur:
LOL

I was attacking the Bishop base 22 last night in an Ostwind.

I only saw 3 plane types ever took off.
B-26
C-47
F4U
That was it in about 1.5 hours

[/b]

Must have missed my Spitfire Mk V and Typhoon sorties then =)

Had a blast trying to drop on pair of 1000lbers on various Ostwinds, don't think I ever managed it, but I got a few with cannon.

Even survived long enough to refuel/rearm three times at one point.

------------------
Graywolfe <tim@flibble.org>

Yeager · « **Reply #53 on:** October 16, 2000, 02:19:00 PM »

Rip and Verm,

I didnt have *Facts and Data* on the 1.03 190A5 to know that it was totally hosed.

Yes, I keep telling myself to get some good source information on WW2 aircraft performance but I havent yet (any suggestions?).

What I do know is that all my time online has given me a good general purpose education in all AH aircraft types and how to expect them to perform in a ZILLION different combat situations. The F4U1C is pulling some tremendous doozies in the open arena. FWIW, I did see a N1K do an unbelievable move at 20K but it has not happened enough (to me) to get the old eyebrows all standing on edge!

Also saw some Spits doing incredible energy moves but none since patch 5. Yes boys and girls, there are more fixes coming, I can rest assured on that count! And its a dam good thing too! HTC will get it figured out!

Yeager

Hangtime · « **Reply #54 on:** October 16, 2000, 04:55:00 PM »

LOL. If HTC rechecks the planes FM's; and takes this commentary from the masses for whats it's worth, then this was a good thread; a good thing indeedy.

Impressions count. First impressions count big. The impression I get when reading this thread is that the 1c is outta place in the MA.

I wonder how many newbie pilots hop right in that thing after gettin hosed outta the sky by one. Then discover that to fly it well takes skill and practice, so they leave; feeling disgusted. Can't be good for buisness. But there's other ways to look at it too. Glad it ain't my decision. I just pays my money; and takes my chance.

Yeag; gotta say tho (tounge in cheek) that if we had a HA, we'd not have to worry about 1C's.

Hang

Minotaur · « **Reply #55 on:** October 16, 2000, 09:43:00 PM »

Graywolf;

If you were their I certainly missed you, because I had quite a few kills that 1.5 hour. None were Typhies or Spits. At one point Craven had a 20 kill streak in place.

Salute!

------------------
Mino
The Wrecking Crew

"Anyway, more golf..."
Humble

Chango · « **Reply #56 on:** October 16, 2000, 10:16:00 PM »

Some of the guys that fly F4u's dont fly anything but F4u's. That makes them real hard to kill. I am 1 of those guys. I have it understood that the F4u 1c and the 1d have the same FM. I have flown both and only prefer the 1c because of the cannons. I figure as long as everyone is flying late war planes with cannons why does flying a late war F4u with cannons make me a dweeb???
If they implement an RPS I will fly the 1d happily because I love it. I dont think its uber though!! I go out of my way to attack F4u's regardless of what plane I am in because most guys cant fly it right. I agree with some of the earlier post regarding the spin recovery. I think that WB has that modeled better in all the planes (Its harder and seems more realistic)!! Fix the stalls and implement an RPS and it will fix the whining. You guys have to realize that plane had a 11.5 to 1 kill ratio.

AKSeaWulfe · « **Reply #57 on:** October 16, 2000, 10:43:00 PM »

Against Zeros Chango. That isn't saying much. If you have the speed to get away from one, which all US planes have except the P26 Peashooter, then you can get an amazing kill/loss ratio. One pass, 6x.50s blasting away... bye bye zero.

-SW

Fishu · « **Reply #58 on:** October 16, 2000, 11:32:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Chango:
Some of the guys that fly F4u's dont fly anything but F4u's. That makes them real hard to kill. I am 1 of those guys. I have it understood that the F4u 1c and the 1d have the same FM. I have flown both and only prefer the 1c because of the cannons. I figure as long as everyone is flying late war planes with cannons why does flying a late war F4u with cannons make me a dweeb???
If they implement an RPS I will fly the 1d happily because I love it. I dont think its uber though!! I go out of my way to attack F4u's regardless of what plane I am in because most guys cant fly it right. I agree with some of the earlier post regarding the spin recovery. I think that WB has that modeled better in all the planes (Its harder and seems more realistic)!! Fix the stalls and implement an RPS and it will fix the whining. You guys have to realize that plane had a 11.5 to 1 kill ratio.

When I flew F4u C just for a test, I got accustomed to kill without wingtips within early stage when I wasn't even supposed to be accustomed to fly completely intact plane.

A bit later I found out that F4u C is pretty lethal... just quick burst and your target blows up (with some rare exceptions where doesnt)
If you haven't noticed, C also maneuvers better than D, with the cannons.

Fishu · « **Reply #59 on:** October 16, 2000, 11:37:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Apache:
2318 of these kills were of Panzers, Ostwinds, M3's & M16's. The primary roll of the F4U-1C was a close ground support if I am not mistaken.
Subtracting these kills from the total leaves the F4U-1C with 4979 air to air kills.

I hope I am not mistaken that most tanks of that class in real war were dealed out with bombs and rockets, more than with cannons..
Subtracting of kills makes it just look innocent compared to others, when it is real 'hog' with the cannons.
If we wan't to get even, we can also include vehicle kills for other fighters..

Other thing is that I don't believe in statistics, I only believe on that what I see and experience.

Why don't I believe in statistics?

There might be plane that is modelled up in accident, but it might have been flown by many newbies because plane is famous and therefore that adds # more deaths.

Same goes vice-versa, if plane has little fame and flown only by some nuts that want's to be ace in it, kill ratio can get really boosted up and cause false illusion of planes ability.

I give you a good example; I have something like 2.5:1 Kill to Death ratio in Ju-88, thats more than many has in a fighter.
So, conclusion must be, Ju-88 is kickass fighter with a bomber capability.
right or wrong?

Author Topic: F4U1C needs to be removed (Read 1120 times)

Ice

AKSeaWulfe