Author Topic: Lancs Low Level (Read 887 times)

tatertot · « **Reply #15 on:** September 29, 2004, 09:20:05 PM »

This is just my 2cents doesnt mean crap i no cause it costs 5cence to be noticed.Anyway i am one of the noe bombers buffs in this game and ill tell you why i do it.1)main reason i dont have all night to get to 20k (i do have a real life )2)even if i do get to 20k id get ganged before i get to target everytime.3)lotta action outta tail gun is right i have more fun gunning than actualy bombing the targets well except for cv s:D Know if the buffs fell in at 20k might be a different story all together you know like they do in the old ah tod anyway just a little in sight to the low thing.For me its no diifferent than a pork run or a vulch fest

Mak333 · « **Reply #16 on:** September 29, 2004, 09:28:37 PM »

I have an idea, maybe not a very good one but what the hell.

Maybe all of the level bombers should be perked. I hate the new model now, buffs take alot more firepower to take out. I see all the time people upping B17's and B26's only to go low level/med level and not necessarily bomb a target, but just to attract some spitties or 51's and what not to get a few easy kills, then land.. They have three planes right? So what is the value of those three? Nothing to them. The guns aren't even alligned right for the other two bombers. IE - you have guns zeroed for 600m out. You fire in the lead bomber, it hits, but the other two miss by a wide margin. - So yes, either perk the bombers, or give more people credit for level bombing. Maybe the targets should be worth more at whatever altitude you bomb AGL.?

I really don't know how to fix the prob. but I'm just throwin it out there. I would definitely like to see some sort of consequence for upping three bombers to make a suicidal dive at a base only to take out FH's. How would we correct the problem of bomber inflation if you will?

bigsky · « **Reply #17 on:** September 30, 2004, 03:34:21 AM »

this was not problem before the calibration was added. people with spikey and out of calibration sticks can not bomb well. thats the way the game works like it or not. just like spawn killing or vulching its the game, if a guy needs to drop 39,000 lbs. of bombs to kill 1 tank thats your idea of fun not mine. if it was up to me i would drop the calibration, in ma use only one bomber. keep the calibration/ bomber set thing for special events and such. put more hangers and stuff on the airfields so that 10 guys in bombers cant close a base down in 1 pass like they used to before the calibration thing was added. i think htc traded one problem for another. besides i thinks its kinda hard to fly, gun, and calibrate all at the same time anyway. until it changes suck it up. i found this on low level bombers,

http://www.billingsgazette.com/index.php?display=rednews/2002/06/04/build/local/75-midway.inc

bozon · « **Reply #18 on:** September 30, 2004, 04:12:40 AM »

before the calibration was added, 1 B17 could kill the fuel on 3 bases down to 25% from 25kft. Using 1 500lb bomb for every fuel bunker.
Or, you could kill the troops on the entire front with 1 bomber flying at the stratosphere.
Not to mention that bombers could reverse and make a second run within less than 60 sec.

The idea of enabling bomb release from the F6 position only for big buffs, sounds the best solution to me. It doesn't pork anything, it doesn't limits the alt for droping bombs and easy to implement.

Bozon

FiLtH · « **Reply #19 on:** September 30, 2004, 08:14:20 AM »

Very good idea....but Im willing to bet that someone could macro an f6>bombrelease>forward view in the blink of an eye to make it pointless. They do in ww2ol.

Raider179 · « **Reply #20 on:** September 30, 2004, 10:06:24 AM »

F6 not the answer. how would you bomb at low level which is what some bombers did? I think the dive angle limiter is the way to go.

Alpo · « **Reply #21 on:** September 30, 2004, 11:05:46 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Mak333
I have an idea, maybe not a very good one but what the hell.

Maybe all of the level bombers should be perked.

Ding ding ding... you are absolutely correct sir! Not a very good idea

If you fly them enough, you will see that most of the time they are just meat on the table for a patient fighter pilot who KNOWS how to bring them down. However, if you choose to camp on my six o'clock and slowly close in... any gunner worth two cents should shred you.

The real problem with perking the bombers is (as everyone will tell you), it prevents the new kid on the block who just saw this great thing called Aces High on TV and "Why can't I fly a B17?"

Quote

Also posted by Mak333
The guns aren't even alligned right for the other two bombers. IE - you have guns zeroed for 600m out. You fire in the lead bomber, it hits, but the other two miss by a wide margin.

Hello... McFly... HiTech fixed this a patch or two ago. Buff guns now converge at 500yds I believe. It used to be that they converged at 1000 but with AH2 bullets from the buff guns being thrown out at 1101 yards, it didn't make any sense to converge them out that far. Test it offline with the .target command if you want.

Quote

Also posted by Mak333
I really don't know how to fix the prob. but I'm just throwin it out there. I would definitely like to see some sort of consequence for upping three bombers to make a suicidal dive at a base only to take out FH's.

SEE YOU DO KNOW THE ANSWER!

It's not perk the bomber, it's stop the DIVING "level" bomber (ie. level buff, B17, Lancaster, KI-67, etc. being used in a questionable manner). You see it all the time from carriers. If a plane could be used in a diving role (A20), fine... allow the bomb release.

Quote

Also posted by Mak333
So yes, either perk the bombers, or give more people credit for level bombing. Maybe the targets should be worth more at whatever altitude you bomb AGL.?

Honestly, if there was a way to multiply an altitude factor with the base perks earned for the damage on the drop, and then have a good bomber to spend those perks on B29... B29.... B29

that might be kind of nice.

My vote... level bombers means LEVEL!

On the "Low Level" bombing subject... I would like to see ack batteries scattered further from the bases. Maybe 88s with a punch at 3k or less, just puffy black dots as you go higher. The guns would have to be easily seen and killed (like at an airfield) so if you wanted a low altitude raid, you would have to clear a path first. It would make getting a goon into a town a little more interesting too! (I think DoK might have suggested this too... I know it's not original thinking on my part

)

Gunslngr · « **Reply #22 on:** September 30, 2004, 07:12:19 PM »

I have to agree with Alpo,

and not just because he's my C.O in the Game!

A angle limiter on Bomb release would be realistic and fair. This
would make it more difficult to "Dive Bomb" in level bombers.

As far as "Low level" bombers, it was a war time tactic, and it is
an effective Game tactic and it leaves the bomber open to attack
from everything (Ack,vehicals,fighters,ships). If people do not
defend their bases, who cares if the Buffs come in high or low.

To make it more interesting, I would not mind having an "Air defense system scattered around each country (AI or mannable)
(not just at bases) that would allow better defense against low level intruders (Buff,Jabo or other wise).

I like the idea of a "Altitude Accuracy) awards systems. This would
reward players who take the time and effort to bomb from higher altitude.

beet1e · « **Reply #23 on:** October 01, 2004, 05:47:48 AM »

Rod367 - LOL!

Quote

Originally posted by SlapShot
What is the definition of "low-level" ?

500-1000 ft AGL ... I don't think so.

That is what they considered in the next paragraph as "ultra-low level" and thats was used for one specific type of attack that tooks months to train for.

The Dambusters had to drop the bouncing bomb from an alt of 50ft. IIRC, they had to make the journey at that alt too. I have the DVD, with Michael Redgrave as Barnes Wallace. I was quite fascinated by the development of that bouncing bomb, which took many months.

bozon · « **Reply #24 on:** October 01, 2004, 06:37:57 AM »

Quote

Very good idea....but Im willing to bet that someone could macro an f6>bombrelease>forward view in the blink of an eye to make it pointless. They do in ww2ol.

you can make the macro, but when you switch to F6 position auto-level kicks in, jinks the nose up and will spoil the dive angle.

Quote

F6 not the answer. how would you bomb at low level which is what some bombers did? I think the dive angle limiter is the way to go.

you can switch to F6 and release the bombs without calibrating while flying level at 200 feet I guess.

Bozon

Mak333 · « **Reply #25 on:** October 01, 2004, 08:19:55 AM »

Ok Alpo, I do agree with ya. So my state was rather...ignorant.

However, I do like the idea of factoring in the altitude at which your bombs drop AGL to figure in for how many perk points you receive. Since dive bombing and low-level attacks are rather easy to accomplish and suicidal...less points should be awarded for targets hit.

Another point. I believe the ack does very little damage to heavy level bombers. Not puffy ack but the ack. Maybe by increasing the intensity of the firepower of ack vs B17's, 26's and lancs, then maybe we wouldnt be having issues with these suicidal attacks in the first place. In real life bombers were taken down easily by the puffy ack right? - ofcourse if they were hit often enough or in critical places...
I've seen lancs charge through 5+ blazing ack guns at 500-1000ft AGL and barely coming out the other end without a scratch. THIS I believe is a big problem. So to solve it, just UP the firepower on the ack guns? =) This way it forces level bombers to ... level bomb (for the most part) which would add more realism to the game.