Author Topic: D.C. personal protection act  (Read 3208 times)

Offline Curval

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« Reply #60 on: October 01, 2004, 11:59:23 AM »
One of his kids did that?  I read above it was Mary Rosh...his "shades" account identity.

I went to Lott's website, can you point out where he mentions that it was his child?
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Offline lazs2

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« Reply #61 on: October 02, 2004, 11:16:52 AM »
read your own article curval... in it Lott says it was his 16 year old son who wrote that.   I have not heard him say anthing at all about it, just going by what the author of the article said.   Course... he could be lying since he really gives no proof.

still.... nothing very damaging in the articles is there?   Read the books.   Look at the reams of data (all footnoted) and you will be amazed that the guy didn't get at least a dozen data points screwed up.     It is a monumental study... Can you imagine how many liberals went livid when they seen it and went over every single fact with a fine tooth comb?  And this is the best they can do?  

No data by ANY source anywhere shows that concealled carry causes problems.   So why not allow it?   What problems could it possibly cause?    

Show me a study that shows a gun ban in the U.S. or anywhere has caused crime to go down.   There are plenty that shows it went up... the best the liberals can do is say that "ecopnomics" have to be factored in.... well.... if you have a crime ridden community where people are afraid and have no way to protect themselves.... well.... that communities "economics" are destined for the crapper.

lazs

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #62 on: October 02, 2004, 11:18:15 AM »
even without a survey tho... what would you think the percentage of people who had a gun pointed at them would be attack the gun wielder?

lazs

Offline Curval

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« Reply #63 on: October 02, 2004, 12:28:04 PM »
I thought you were talking about his website.

But okay, he "claims" a sixteen year old son wrote the amazon review.

Lott says he didn't post the Amazon review; his 16-year-old son did. The "Mary Rosh" e-mail address belongs to his four sons, Lott told Chatterbox—it's derived from their first names—and Lott has used it now and then so that, if he fails to answer a response, it won't be interpreted as "me conceding things." Lott now says the deception was "wrong."

But, just above it says:

One posting that Lott has admitted to posting read as follows:

I had [Lott] for a PhD level empirical methods class when he taught at the Wharton School at the University of Pennsylvania back in the early 1990s, well before he gained national attention, and I have to say that he was the best professor that I ever had. You wouldn't know that he was a 'right-wing' ideologue from the class. ... There were a group of us students who would try to take any class that he taught. Lott finally had to tell us that it was best for us to try and take classes from other professors more to be exposed to other ways of teaching graduate material.


Rrrright.

Typically you simply believe whatever the man says.

He obviously admitted to using the Mary Rosh identity in that case, but he denies the Amazon review.

He is so Kerryesque it isn't funny.
Some will fall in love with life and drink it from a fountain that is pouring like an avalanche coming down the mountain

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #64 on: October 02, 2004, 01:17:52 PM »
whole bunch of sound and furry over one little thing eh curval?  

So.. could we at least admit that you have nothing of substance except that you simply don't like firearms and that no matter what the evidence shows you would like to take away peoples rights to defend themselves.

again.... show me where giving people the right to carry concealled has caused any problems.  and... either way... explain why you are against it.


lazs

Offline Curval

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« Reply #65 on: October 02, 2004, 03:34:23 PM »
It isn't just one little thing lazs.

No, I'm not going to start a back and forth gun debate AGAIN.  I've written how I feel about guns many many times and you and I have played gun thread ping pong enough.

I was making a comment about this Lott character and his "stats".

You clearly regard him as some sort of authority on the issue.  To me he appears to be an obsessed weirdo.

To each his own.
Some will fall in love with life and drink it from a fountain that is pouring like an avalanche coming down the mountain

Offline Widewing

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« Reply #66 on: October 02, 2004, 05:53:23 PM »
Just out of curiosity, has anyone ever used a firearm to prevent a crime, stop a crime in progress or to apprehend a criminal or criminals?

My regards,

Widewing
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #67 on: October 03, 2004, 10:42:57 AM »
curval... what stats did you prove wrong?  Lott quoted a survey that was given to him and it was probly nonexistent.   He shoulda checked that one out better... he obviously checked out all the hundreds of other more important stats in his book or the anti gun nuts would be all over em.  They have the will... they have the agenda and they have had the time... and.... they have bupkus, nada..

wide... do you mean anyone in the world or anyone on the board?  

lazs

Offline Nashwan

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« Reply #68 on: October 03, 2004, 10:54:42 AM »
Quote
so nashwan... you are saying that the reason that there is so much gun violence in DC is because the criminals know that the citizens are unarmed and helpless?


No, I'm saying there's so much gun violence in DC because it's so easy to get guns.

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #69 on: October 03, 2004, 11:06:26 AM »
well... that seems kinda dumb on the face of it... they have very strict laws against firearms in DC and it is much harder to get guns there than in neighboring states.... this is fact, otherewise... why leave the area to get guns?  

But... in the states with easy access to guns.... the crime is down while DC it continues to go up.... and you explain this as...  The criminals still manage to get guns?   Why don't the criminals in the easy to purchase states prey on their own citizens?   Why commute so to speak?  

It is also silly to say that it is easier to get guns in DC than the neighboring states because it weakens your position... according to your logic... if DC had the same laws as the other states then it would have less access to guns... You are basicly saying that the stricter the gun laws the easier it is for criminals to get guns.

lazs

Offline Widewing

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« Reply #70 on: October 03, 2004, 02:34:16 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Nashwan
No, I'm saying there's so much gun violence in DC because it's so easy to get guns.


Incorrect. This is a result of a violent under-culture. Obviously poverty and drugs contribute to this, but I'll wager if you gave every gangbanger a million dollars, they'd still be shooting each other.  Anyone with a shred of common sense would realize that if every gun on earth disappeared tomorrow, the murder rate would be unchanged. Knifes, swords, bats and axes would be substituted.

Access to legally purchased weapons would be denied to anyone with a rap sheet under Federal law anyway. I've been to enough guns shows to know that you don't see this element there trying to buy firearms. So, anyone who claims this as a source of guns for career criminals doesn't know what they're talking about. Then again, no one every accused the anti-gun people of knowing what they were talking about. Many are all about emotional response, usually devoid of reasoning.

This problem isn't solved by emotional response, it's solved by rational programs to educate and employ and enable people caught up in violent cultures, providing a way out that has tangible rewards for effort and hard work.

Until we as a nation address the root causes of this violent under-culture, things will change little. Especially in the neighborhoods where the culture florishes.

Naturally, there is no program that can provide a solution to purely evil people. We will always have these to contend with.

What always bothered me was the billions of dollars spent in useless government endeavors that easily could have been spent providing for better schools, housing and opportunities for families and individuals stuck in the endless cycle of poverty and hopelessness. Sure, there are going to be people who will not bother to take advantage of opportunity, they'd rather remain poor. We will always have a certain percentage of the population with no desire to change their circumstances. That would be their choice. As it is now, the vast majority of folks suffering in poverty really don't have a choice.

So. how do you fix this? Beats the hell out of me. It's obvious that no single solution can do it. Surely we have enough creative thinkers to devise solutions. The problem as I see it is that government will ultimately mismanage any program. There's no doubt in my mind that the worst managers work for the government, as no private employer would tolerate them for long. Yeah, there's no simple solution.

So, there's a lot of reasons for violence, but guns isn't one of them. Until our society wakes up and recognizes that this is a cultural issue, things will stay at the status quo and the not-so-deep thinkers will continue to assign blame to what scares them, rather than the actual cause.

It reminds me of the "War on Terror".... We don't have a war with terror, what we have is a war with radical Islam, the most violent culture on the planet. And like gun violence is blamed on guns, terrorism is blamed on terrorists. Once again, the root cause of the violence is ignored, and once again, little progress will be made.

My regards,

Widewing
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #71 on: October 03, 2004, 02:50:14 PM »
I will go further.... I say that there should be no parole...

criminals serve their sentance but.... when released.... they have payed their debt to society... they should have all their rights as an American citizen restored to them.. if they had a gold watch and a sixgun on em when they were arrested for that bank robbery... then when they get out they should be given back their gold watch and six gun.  and... they should be able to vote like everyone else.   no parole officer of any of that crap.

lazs