Poland?

[Edbert1]

So, when do we pull the troops out of Germany and send them to our real friends in Poland? I'm sure their economy would benefit from the infusion of a few (dozen?) Billion dollars a year.

[TheDudeDVant]

Originally posted by OIO
"There is no evidence to date that Iran is pursuing nuclear WMDs.."

dont tell me you think they need enriched nuclear fuel to solve their nonexistent energy problems.


"But still, my shallow thinking cannot come up with where the WMDs are that the kurds were threatened with."

Not 'threatened' with. Victims of. BIG difference.

"Afterall, you chimed in on a discussion about now, not almost 20years ago"

This is not 20 years ago. Do a search and see when Saddam last used his chemical toys on the Kurds. Then think about the hundreds of scientists and technicians that knew how to make those weapons... and the hundreds more soldiers who were trained to deliver and deploy said weapons.

Those people are the danger not the physical possession of a canister full of mustard gas or anthrax. Saddam could've very well destroyed all his chemical weapons before the war..and that wouldve accomplished nothing. His people knew how to make them and could go back into production in a matter of months after the existing stockpiles had been destroyed (or sold out to someone else..who knows?).

This is right out of the Cold War man, it didnt matter if one side got the first nuclear strike in, the other side had the capability to rearm and retaliate...and with nukes that means both sides lose no matter what. Because both sides HAD the personnel with the knowledge and had the infrastructure to produce the weaponry afterwards.

Saddam wasnt stupid.

The media however, is full of stupid people. That stupidity is transmitted on the airwaves over and over and over again.

2568 repetitions make it true. (read 'Brave New World' if you dont get that reference).

I cannont make out your point or the point you intended to argue.. Excuse my shallow thinking please..

[Westy]

"dont tell me you think they need enriched nuclear fuel to solve their nonexistent energy problems."


 Let's bury the blind notion that because Iran is an oil rich nation that they would not desire to be independent of oil. It's a hot commododity ($50plus barrel!!) and Iran would be wise sell all they have to China and the Western world while they can.  So IMO going nuclear is smart.
  Why would they waste any of that "black gold" using any of it themselves, if they do not have to, when they can get gobs of hard Euro currency with which to do other things with? They can put the euro into building new industries and infrastructure so they become won't become just another insignificant, powerless Middle Eastern welfare state when the oil runs out.


 (tangent thought: All the while "big oil" in the US burys serious alternative fuel development. Maybe the Persians aren't that self defeating)


 Anyway....

 Just for the record? I personally believe Iran is pursuing a nuclear capablility.

[lasersailor184]

Sorry Straffo, you just lose a lot of respect for letting other people walk all over you.

Throughout history I mean, in the context of france.

[straffo]

France surrended , it's an historical fact right I can live with this.

Ma familly fought in Poland and France during the whole war and for some even before WWII in Spain and I you think the german walked on us ?

You're really a "merdeux".

[GreenCloud]

what is not funny to me is the way Hanoi Kerry calls all the allies..fake or coerced or not really allies.....not really helping

what a scum bag...

He should just go bak to calling all our US and ALLied Soldiers Baby killing war Criminals..

Hanoi Kerry is treasonous...


very simple..


Poland..you guys kik azzz...salute and thank you

[Chortle]

Originally posted by Mighty1
The axis of the corrupt(France Germany Russia) got what they deserved which was nothing.

So NOW your worried about our allies.

Are they complaining? If so who? What contract were the NOT able to bid on that they wanted to?

Question is did any of our allies WANT to bid on any of these contracts?

Here's 1

ABCNEWS has obtained a copy of a 99-page contract worth $600 million.

"We have never in our 40-year history spent this much money in one country in one year," said Andrew S. Natsios, administrator of the U.S. Agency for International Development, an independent federal agency that receives overall foreign policy guidance from the State Department.

The USAID contract is filled with details about plans to construct Iraqi schools, airports, roads, bridges, hospitals, power plants and more.

‘Limitations of Competition’

British troops are serving alongside U.S. troops in Iraq. But the closed process blocked British companies, as well as any foreign firm, from bidding.

[cpxxx]

Leave Poland alone, they are a great people sorely misused.  They have started to arrive here. I've seen several beat up old cars with Polish licence plates on the road hereabouts. To have driven across Europe in cars like that to seek a better life takes fortitude.  Plus many Polish women I've seen are beautiful.

All this quibbling about the war in Iraq is pointless. What is needed now is a deep commitment by everyone to rebuild Iraq and keep it out of the hands of the lunatics. That is the REAL issue.

[Chitownflyer]

Poland was my ancestral home for I'm  of polish blood.  My Grand parents emigrated to US in late 1915, during the dark days of the eastern front of the first war, a war started by the Inbreed royal houses of Europe with way too much time on their hands and an arrogance that was with out bounds.  A time when Poland only existed as a dream and had not been on the map since the last partion of 1793.

Polish soul is one of honor, courage and commitment to the civilization of Europe it's self.  The Poles have saved Europe and it's very soul many times in history, most noteworthy stopping the Turkish horde at the siege of Vienna 1683, with courage, and superior tactics, were able hold of the Turkish horde from over running the whole of Europe and its culture.  And most recently the war with the Bolshevik barbarians at the Miracle on the Vistula were the polish army under the head of Pilsudski, out manned and out gunned beat back  the Red Army and saved a Europe ravage by the first war from Soviet conquest.

And in 1939, The Pols stood alone, and fought like men when France and Britain were trying to appease Hitler and then turned their back on defense treaties which, if France and Britain had stood up and did engage the Germans in the first days of ww2, that war may have been stopped right there and would have saved millions of lives in the process.

It was polish pilots, the best trained in Europe, that stood toe to toe with the best the Germans could muster and was able to hold them of for weeks alone. better then the combined forces of France and Britain, with france falling and Britain retreating behind the english channel.   And at the fall of poland, most Polish pilots and fighting men  were able to escape and fight on at the Battle of Britain and in other batttles to come.  These Polish pilots had the highest kill ratio of the war.

The dishonor of Britain France and Truman/Roosevelt to turn it' back on Poland after the war and to allow Poland to be be taken over by the Russian barbarians for over 40 years.  Only the courage of Lech Walesa and others to defy the Russians and tp wrest Poland away from that bondage  is a story of freedom its self.  Because of that courage  Poland now finds it self again free and an Indepent Republic, no thanks to the Russians.

Poland now fights with the USA to defeat again a dark forces of Radical Islam and its wish to build a world arab empire that wishes to over run civilization its self, and consistent with on old polish saying….We Fight For Your Freedom and Ours... Poland fights on, with The Usa.

Poland and its sprit shall never die….

Sorry for the ramblings…I hate when people are so ignorant of the huge contribution Poland and its people and what they have done to preserve freedom and civilization it's self and others.

Chi Town Flyer

AKA Mark Kmiecik

[Boroda]

Originally posted by Chitownflyer
 And most recently the war with the Bolshevik barbarians at the Miracle on the Vistula were the polish army under the head of Pilsudski, out manned and out gunned beat back  the Red Army and saved a Europe ravage by the first war from Soviet conquest.

Something new in historical science.

JFYI: Polish army that invaded Soviet territory in 1920 was 3 times bigger the Soviet Westrn front. 148000 vs. 49600. Nevertheless, they were defeated and ran away from occupied land.

Nice to see that throwing agressors away from our land is now called a "Soviet conquest".  
 
May I ask you one little question? Did you study history at elementary school?

Originally posted by Chitownflyer
The dishonor of Britain France and Truman/Roosevelt to turn it' back on Poland after the war and allow it to be taken over by the Russian barbarians for over 40 years.

Sure, the nation that starved almost 100000 Russian/Soviet POWs to death in 1918-20 is much more civilized then "asian hordes of Jewish bolsheviks" who liberated them from nazis...

I already know what your next argument will be

[Chitownflyer]

Katyn forest, Just wondering if you ever heard of that place… just to remind you if you memory is a little faded, its about the thousands of Polish officers that were executed by the Russian Red army in 1940  see link  

http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/cold.war/episodes/01/spotlight/

http://www.cia.gov/csi/studies/winter99-00/pg62.gif

"….In the spring of 1940, about 4,500 of these officers were taken by their Soviet captors to the Katyn forest. Most were then gagged, bound, shot once in the head and buried on the spot. The other Polish POWs were taken to other locations, where many of them were also executed. The mass liquidation killed off much of Poland's intelligentsia and facilitated the Soviet takeover of the nation. …."

And, one more link for you Mr. Pavlov to fill the "memory hole" some Russians may have

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Troy/1791/hole.html


So Mr Pavel Pavlov I guess the term Bolshevik barbarians might apply, so lets not cover up the real truth of the history of the Soviet, Bolshevik Empire and all the Polish people that were carted off and ended up dead in Siberian work camps  after the great patriotic war.  

By the way some the things that the Russian did in Galicia during its occupation in 1915 offensive, according to my grandmother, would be chilling.  It's always been a land of barbarism, at lest what my grandmother told me about Russia.

Any rate, Poland has all ways stood for freedom and it's in stark contrast, historically, with most of Russian history until the very recent past. (1989)

I read history too, so let compare more notes….


Mark Kmiecik

[lasersailor184]

I guess I just miss the good ole days when france would kick someone's bellybutton for looking at someone wrong.

Now they surrender everytime someone sneezes at them.

[ramzey]

Originally posted by Boroda
Something new in historical science.

JFYI: Polish army that invaded Soviet territory in 1920 was 3 times bigger the Soviet Westrn front. 148000 vs. 49600. Nevertheless, they were defeated and ran away from occupied land.

Nice to see that throwing agressors away from our land is now called a "Soviet conquest".  
 
May I ask you one little question? Did you study history at elementary school?

 

Sure, the nation that starved almost 100000 Russian/Soviet POWs to death in 1918-20 is much more civilized then "asian hordes of Jewish bolsheviks" who liberated them from nazis...

I already know what your next argument will be

lets go thrue this once agina on this BB
You claim poles kill 100k of russian pow between 1918-1920.

Genesis:
1990 Gorbatchow said true about Katyn then russians propaganda jump on Poland and claim we killed 40-80k russian POW. They need to say something about us, to balance murder they did. OK its propaganda who like to finde excuse for their own purposes. You know  its about great russians carring flame of freedom for other nations

True is. In XI.1919 in Poland was 7090 russinas POW, they where located in camps we own after germans and russians.
We where young country and have no special services for carry about POW. But they where treat good. Unfortunly epidemy of tyfus (Typhus exanthematicus) came from russia and poles establish quarantain for prisoners. During this days was no medicine for this desise. In Brest died about 1000 POW due hard living condition.
At the begin of 1920 we create services who care about POW and living condition of imprisoned russians rise for better.
In IV.1920 we take about 18k POW, and after Warsaw battle (moracle on vistula river) we take another 50k.
As sources show at the and of polish -russian war (november 18, 1920) we had at Polish territory about 110k russian POW
But, 25k of them was relase imidiently and join anti bolshewic armies and ukrainian army
So we have 80-85k POW at fall of 1920.
We was not prepared to keep so many POWs at thos days and russian side dont like to exchenge them fast.
I should reminde Poland was destroyed country after ww1 where most of fights take pace on our territory and of course after polish-rssian war.
At begin of winter one more ephidemy spreed out in POWs camps.
But due hard work of our services at the begin of 1921 we allmost  get ride of this. Unfortunly as for every ephidemy lots of them die.
In April 1921 we start exchange POWs with russians.  65.797 russians was exchanged for 24k polish troops.965 POW was keep as guarantee for future exchanges.(they where returned in 1922) For permission to stay in  Poland ask about 1000 POW  and about 1000 of POW other nations (comunists) taken in this war (austrian, ukrainian, Lotish, Germans, hungarians) where returned to their oryginal countries.
So in Poland died from desise about 16-18k POWs, they where not murdered with could blood.
I should reminde you Pavel this epidhemy came form russia where 3 milions people died in same time!!
Biggest ephidemy was in Serbia during ww1 , where in half year in 1915 died 150k people.
From 25 k anti bolshevic forces who was held in Poland after end of war 5000 decide to stay in poland, rest of them return to russia after amnesty or migrate to other countries. This one who stay was arrested after ww2 and killed by NKWD.

they dont wrote that  in your news paper  Pavel, right?
no wonder its easier to  blame somone else to finde excuses, is that not childish?
I thought you are over your own propaganda ;-)

ramzey

[Krusher]

the Poles have been doing great work in Iraq... here is an example.


Troops capture Saddam general
From correspondents in Baghdad
October 03, 2004
A FORMER general in Saddam Hussein's armed forces has been captured along with nine other people in counter-insurgency operations conducted by Polish, US and Iraqi troops in south-central Iraq.

"As a result of the operations, 10 suspects were detained, including a man who was a general in Saddam Hussein's former army and is wanted by Iraqi police," the multinational force said, without identifying the general.

Five of those detained were quickly released after questioning at the scene, the military said.

A cache of AK-47 rifles and ammunition was also recovered along with anti-government propaganda.

The operations, which took place near the mainly Shiite Muslim town of Hilla, south of Baghdad, were "launched in order to prevent terrorist attacks" in the region, the military said.

Poland sent 2500 troops to Iraq last year in the wake of the US-led invasion and heads up a multinational division of 6000 soldiers in south-central Iraq.

[Boroda]

"I already know what your next argument will be"

Originally posted by Chitownflyer
Katyn forest, Just wondering if you ever heard of that place… just to remind you if you memory is a little faded, its about the thousands of Polish officers that were executed by the Russian Red army in 1940  see link  

I had long disussions about Katyn tragedy here. I don't know who slaughtered Polish officers there. They were killed from German weapons, and in 1940 there was a recreation park there.

The last reliable document on Katyn still is a Burdenko comission report made in 1944.

What Gorbachev and his gang of traitors said - it's their problem. They are liars and traitors, and most of the papers they gave to Polish side are proven to be fake.

Pan Kmiecik, the history of Rzeczpospolita and Russia/Ukraine is one long conflict. What your brave warriors have done to Ukraine will not be forgotten soon.

As many intelligent Russians I have a guilt complex for Poland, but it doesn't meant anyone is allowed to call my nation "barbaric". Most of the "crimes" you blame us for were just self-defence, like the 1920 Polish invasion.

JFYI: my Grandfather graduated from Warsaw University in 1914. He studied there because he didn't finish classic gymnasium, and couldn't go to ant university in Russia. Only in Polish Kingdom he could study.