Author Topic: You think Bush got pwned tonight?  (Read 2700 times)

Offline AKS\/\/ulfe

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You think Bush got pwned tonight?
« Reply #60 on: October 01, 2004, 12:27:24 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Rude
Are you aware of the fruit produced by the Clinton Admin's Bilateral talks....


Talks can produce fruit? AWESOME!
-SW

Offline TheDudeDVant

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You think Bush got pwned tonight?
« Reply #61 on: October 01, 2004, 12:33:12 PM »
Quote

So you're suggesting that Iran, or any other country for that matter, would submit to unilateral inspections? What's the threat? Unilateral sanctions?


They are already being inspected. But not by the US.

Offline Martlet

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You think Bush got pwned tonight?
« Reply #62 on: October 01, 2004, 12:53:11 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by TheDudeDVant
When did NK start it's program?

It doesnt really matter. You seem to still be believing that Iran is not capable of recieving fission material. The fact is they have. Seems a great deal better if we were the ones in control of it. But, our one track administration lacks the thinking ability to see past this or even see it coming..

Its not the same thing martlet.. But keep spinning as if it were. Perhaps now they will develop a uranium weapon. But how could we know since we have absolutly no control nor say about it. We cant even know how much they have.


In control of it?  Like we were in control of Korea?  IRAN is in control of it.  If we gave it to Iran, you think they'd just give it back?  No, we'd put sanctions on them.  That's worked well so far, huh?  It worked well in North Korea, huh?

How's it not the same thing?  It's EXACTLY the same thing.

Keep spinning....

Offline Sabre

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You think Bush got pwned tonight?
« Reply #63 on: October 01, 2004, 12:54:40 PM »
Guess I'll buck the trend and try for an honest and (hopefully) inciteful review of the debate.

Granted, I missed about 40 minutes of the middle of the debate.  However, from what I saw I thought Kerry’s performance was slightly better, not in what he said, but how he said it.  The problem is, there was very little substance beyond attacking the President.  When asked directly by the moderator (who did a respectable job, I’d add) to tell the people what he would do different or better in keeping America safe, he simple repeated the same criticisms of the President he has made before.  He didn’t really present any coherent plan of his own, i.e. he never answered the question.

For the President’s part, his answers were short and to the point…sometimes too short.  He occasionally appeared to finish his answers so quickly, that he found himself looking for something else to say.  He could have made much better use of this “dead-air” to go back on the offensive.

The biggest area where I felt Bush scored points was in the area of dealing with allies and would-be allies.  Kerry made his usual remarks about how the President “went it alone”, and how he (Kerry) will be work to build international help, but with nothing to back it up.  Bush counter-attacked, effectively I thought, saying Kerry’s constant belittling and denigrating of the Coalition partners (including the UN-sanctioned interim prime minister of Iraq) was not the mark of a great statesman.  I think Kerry also made a mistake in stating he, as president, would re-open bi-lateral talks with North Korea.  Here, he was on the opposite side of his own arguments, which is that we should always act in concert with international partners.  Again, Bush made good use of this, by stating strongly that bilateralism would be a huge mistake, and led to the NK’s being able to secretly develop nukes in the first place.  China, he argued, had great influence on Pyongyang, and that b-passing them would be a blunder.  Finally, I felt Kerry’s remark about military action needing to pass a "global test” gave Bush another opportunity to paint Kerry as one who would only act after going to the UN, hat in hand, to ask permission...with no answer to what he would do if the UN said, "No."

Bush’s biggest problem was he let these opportunities to hammer his opponent drop after his initial response.  All in all, it was Bush saying he’s done a good job, with Kerry arguing the President had done a poor one.  The President also didn’t pound Kerry much about his record (or lack thereof) in the senate; all the missed intel briefings, committee meetings, critical national security votes, etc.  He had an opportunity to paint Kerry as not only unqualified to lead, but also disinterested in leadership opportunities he’d had as a senator.  Bush squandered some great opportunities, I believe.  On the other hand, Bush can claim to have kept the moral upper hand, in that he focused primarily on what he had accomplished, and wished to yet accomplish, rather than on simply attacking his opponent.
Sabre
"The urge to save humanity almost always masks a desire to rule it."

Offline DREDIOCK

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You think Bush got pwned tonight?
« Reply #64 on: October 01, 2004, 01:34:46 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by TheDudeDVant
Yea.. That might be good for NK.

It would be better for the world.


LOL I can picture it now.

UN:" NK We have just passed a resolution saying that you must disarm"

NK: "Screw off"

UN:  "NK We have just passed another resolution stating that you are in violation of the previous resolution. And you must Dis arm now"

NK " Are you still there? what part of Screw off dont you get?"

UN : "NK  WE have just passed another resolution stating you are in violation of the previous resolutions calling for you to Disarm.
Dis arm now or else face serious consequences"

NK: "What do you mean by "Serious consequences?"

UN: "Why.. We'll pass another resolution!"

Yea,,, That'll work

this current situation with NK is a great arguement against Isolating and containing countries like NK and Iraq.
We Isolated NK for how long. Now NK has nukes and if I remember correctly a missle system capable of reaching the US.
Guess what.
NK aint so isolated anymore.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2004, 01:41:28 PM by DREDIOCK »
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Offline TheDudeDVant

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You think Bush got pwned tonight?
« Reply #65 on: October 01, 2004, 01:49:56 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Martlet
In control of it?  Like we were in control of Korea?  IRAN is in control of it.  If we gave it to Iran, you think they'd just give it back?  No, we'd put sanctions on them.  That's worked well so far, huh?  It worked well in North Korea, huh?

How's it not the same thing?  It's EXACTLY the same thing.

Keep spinning....


sure sure martlet.. but the fact is they have all the fisson material they need.. Kerry was not proposing anything new for them.. They ALREADY have it.. Kerry's only point was its too bad we have a short sited administration that has now placed us in a postion inwhich we have absolutely no control over. In his idea we could have had at least a small measure of control over what they do with said material or even how much they have/get.

In martlet world this makes kerry want to give Iran nuclear weapons.. Doesnt matter they already have the material..

Offline mars01

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You think Bush got pwned tonight?
« Reply #66 on: October 01, 2004, 01:51:31 PM »
LOLH,

Let me just say that after the way Bush rushed to war with Iraq I do not trust him and before last night I was not thrilled with Kerry and felt he lacked what it took to be an effectivce president.

After last night…

I couldn't wait to see the response from the hard core Republicans.  You know in your heart your guy was out classed, out smarted and lacks the intelligence and experience to keep his job compared to John Kerry.  The depth of knowledge and experience Kerry demonstrated compared to Bush on all the topics last night was crystal clear.

The debate last night was amazing.  Kerry showed last night that he really knows what he is talking about; bush only knows what he is told to talk about.  That was evident and clear.  I think there was a point where even Bush realized Kerry would be a much better president.  lol.

Hmm, Kerry is an intelligent person with 19 years of political service behind him.  19 years on the Foreign Relations Committee.  He is a Vietnam War Vet.  This guy has spent the majority of his life serving his country in one facet or another.  You’re right he is a terrible choice for President.  :RollEyes:  

Global Test, Flip Flopper, please!  Kerry said we lost a lot of respect and stature in the world and he is right.  He stated that during the Cuban Missile crisis, Kennedy went to France to deliver proof of the missiles in Cuba and the French response was, "We don't need to see the pictures, the word of the United States President is good enough."  That is not the case any longer.  

Yes Kerry said Saddam was a threat, yes Kerry said he should have been dealt with.  Kerry agreed he should have been dealt with the way Bush said he was going to deal with him.  Building a coalition that had the support of the world’s leaders, exhausting every avenue before going to war, producing proof of WMDs.  None of which Bush did.  Bush flip flopped and rushed to war with a poorly built coalition and with little proof of WMDs.

Even the weapons inspectors were saying Iraq did not have WMDs and everyone can now agree they were right.  Iraq was a diminishing and contained threat.  I think it was brilliant when Kerry pointed out, that out of 40 countries Iraq was 35th on the list of threats to America when we invaded.

I loved how Kerry pointed out how little of a coalition Bush really put together.  The next biggest troop build up in Iraq is by Great Britain with 4000 troops.  He said there were 2 other countries with less than 4000 in country and all the other countries in the coalition number in the hundreds.  

I found it funny how all Bush could do is repetitively reply with talking points and all that did was allow Kerry to ram home why those points are false.  

Unless Kerry totally fks up this is going to be a great race and I can’t wait for the next three debates.  I’m glad Kerry stepped up and delivered.  Now we get to see what GW is really made of and if he can recover.  One thing is for sure last night Kerry looked a lot more presidential then Bush ever has, out side of 911 where Bush stepped up but has yet to do since.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2004, 01:53:40 PM by mars01 »

Offline TheDudeDVant

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You think Bush got pwned tonight?
« Reply #67 on: October 01, 2004, 01:59:46 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by DREDIOCK
LOL I can picture it now.

UN:" NK We have just passed a resolution saying that you must disarm"

NK: "Screw off"

UN:  "NK We have just passed another resolution stating that you are in violation of the previous resolution. And you must Dis arm now"

NK " Are you still there? what part of Screw off dont you get?"

UN : "NK  WE have just passed another resolution stating you are in violation of the previous resolutions calling for you to Disarm.
Dis arm now or else face serious consequences"

NK: "What do you mean by "Serious consequences?"

UN: "Why.. We'll pass another resolution!"

Yea,,, That'll work

this current situation with NK is a great arguement against Isolating and containing countries like NK and Iraq.
We Isolated NK for how long. Now NK has nukes and if I remember correctly a missle system capable of reaching the US.
Guess what.
NK aint so isolated anymore.


Great joke on the UN's expence. Funny how you dont see anyone on this board actually talk about how well the UN sanctions work. Need proof? Its all right here infront of you and for certain the biggest blunder of our generation.

The UN sanctions worked in Iraqi as is proven with the lack of WMDs inside the country. For all practical purposes, SH had disarmed and he was NO threat to us or any surrounding country.

Offline Martlet

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You think Bush got pwned tonight?
« Reply #68 on: October 01, 2004, 02:00:25 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by TheDudeDVant
sure sure martlet.. but the fact is they have all the fisson material they need.. Kerry was not proposing anything new for them.. They ALREADY have it.. Kerry's only point was its too bad we have a short sited administration that has now placed us in a postion inwhich we have absolutely no control over. In his idea we could have had at least a small measure of control over what they do with said material or even how much they have/get.

In martlet world this makes kerry want to give Iran nuclear weapons.. Doesnt matter they already have the material..


They already have it, so we should give them more?  And giving them more would allow us to have control over it?  Like we have control over the material in North Korea?  That kind of control?  Worked out so well for us there that we should do it again?

You're arguing a failed point.  One that you moonbats tried already and failed at.

Offline TheDudeDVant

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You think Bush got pwned tonight?
« Reply #69 on: October 01, 2004, 02:02:28 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Martlet
They already have it, so we should give them more?  And giving them more would allow us to have control over it?  Like we have control over the material in North Korea?  That kind of control?  Worked out so well for us there that we should do it again?

You're arguing a failed point.  One that you moonbats tried already and failed at.


BS.. I'm arguing your rediculous spin. Your STILL spinning. Kerry said NOTHING about giving them more. Where do you come up with this stuff??

Offline Dead Man Flying

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You think Bush got pwned tonight?
« Reply #70 on: October 01, 2004, 02:11:16 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by rpm371
Source MSNBC


That is not a scientifically valid poll.

-- Todd/Leviathn

Offline Martlet

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You think Bush got pwned tonight?
« Reply #71 on: October 01, 2004, 02:11:58 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by TheDudeDVant
BS.. I'm arguing your rediculous spin. Your STILL spinning. Kerry said NOTHING about giving them more. Where do you come up with this stuff??


So he WOULD have given them nukes THEN, but he won't give them nukes NOW.

I get it.  Sounds like his stance on most other issues.  

The bottom line is Kerry wants to give our biggest threats the start of a nuclear program.  He thinks that's how we'll control them.  Just like we did in North Korea.

In moonbat world, that probably makes sense.

You're still arguing a failed point.  

SPIIIIIINNNNNNN  :aok

Offline Rude

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You think Bush got pwned tonight?
« Reply #72 on: October 01, 2004, 02:15:06 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by mars01
LOLH,

Let me just say that after the way Bush rushed to war with Iraq I do not trust him and before last night I was not thrilled with Kerry and felt he lacked what it took to be an effectivce president.

After last night…

I couldn't wait to see the response from the hard core Republicans.  You know in your heart your guy was out classed, out smarted and lacks the intelligence and experience to keep his job compared to John Kerry.  The depth of knowledge and experience Kerry demonstrated compared to Bush on all the topics last night was crystal clear.

The debate last night was amazing.  Kerry showed last night that he really knows what he is talking about; bush only knows what he is told to talk about.  That was evident and clear.  I think there was a point where even Bush realized Kerry would be a much better president.  lol.

Hmm, Kerry is an intelligent person with 19 years of political service behind him.  19 years on the Foreign Relations Committee.  He is a Vietnam War Vet.  This guy has spent the majority of his life serving his country in one facet or another.  You’re right he is a terrible choice for President.  :RollEyes:  

Global Test, Flip Flopper, please!  Kerry said we lost a lot of respect and stature in the world and he is right.  He stated that during the Cuban Missile crisis, Kennedy went to France to deliver proof of the missiles in Cuba and the French response was, "We don't need to see the pictures, the word of the United States President is good enough."  That is not the case any longer.  

Yes Kerry said Saddam was a threat, yes Kerry said he should have been dealt with.  Kerry agreed he should have been dealt with the way Bush said he was going to deal with him.  Building a coalition that had the support of the world’s leaders, exhausting every avenue before going to war, producing proof of WMDs.  None of which Bush did.  Bush flip flopped and rushed to war with a poorly built coalition and with little proof of WMDs.

Even the weapons inspectors were saying Iraq did not have WMDs and everyone can now agree they were right.  Iraq was a diminishing and contained threat.  I think it was brilliant when Kerry pointed out, that out of 40 countries Iraq was 35th on the list of threats to America when we invaded.

I loved how Kerry pointed out how little of a coalition Bush really put together.  The next biggest troop build up in Iraq is by Great Britain with 4000 troops.  He said there were 2 other countries with less than 4000 in country and all the other countries in the coalition number in the hundreds.  

I found it funny how all Bush could do is repetitively reply with talking points and all that did was allow Kerry to ram home why those points are false.  

Unless Kerry totally fks up this is going to be a great race and I can’t wait for the next three debates.  I’m glad Kerry stepped up and delivered.  Now we get to see what GW is really made of and if he can recover.  One thing is for sure last night Kerry looked a lot more presidential then Bush ever has, out side of 911 where Bush stepped up but has yet to do since.


Be careful what you wish for......also, I'm suprised you cannot see what Bush is made of and even more suprised you fly in the 13th TAS....next time I'm online, check your six carefully:)

Offline TheDudeDVant

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You think Bush got pwned tonight?
« Reply #73 on: October 01, 2004, 02:15:06 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Martlet
So he WOULD have given them nukes THEN, but he won't give them nukes NOW.

I get it.  Sounds like his stance on most other issues.  

The bottom line is Kerry wants to give our biggest threats the start of a nuclear program.  He thinks that's how we'll control them.  Just like we did in North Korea.

In moonbat world, that probably makes sense.

You're still arguing a failed point.  

SPIIIIIINNNNNNN  :aok


see my quote please.. you fall under the fool portion..

I am arguing facts.. you are arguing fiction..
« Last Edit: October 01, 2004, 02:19:00 PM by TheDudeDVant »

Offline Rude

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You think Bush got pwned tonight?
« Reply #74 on: October 01, 2004, 02:16:02 PM »
Ahhh....Dude?

Answer please?