Author Topic: Is it possible to get more parties?  (Read 235 times)

Offline Preon1

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Is it possible to get more parties?
« on: October 05, 2004, 09:53:32 AM »
I know that between the two, my political philosophy will be better represented by Bush than Kerry.  However, niether of them are very close to me when it comes to the whole spectrum of national issues.

The problem is that (at least in the politics of today), I don't think it's possible to have a viable third or fourth (or fifteenth) candidate.  In a situation with a third candidate, there is a good chance that a damaging minority viewpoint would win out because of a split opposing vote.  With multiple candidates, you have the problem of people being restless with a leader that only a small percentage of voters actually approved.  Eventually you'll get what's happening in Isreal, where parties are compromising thier viewpoints so they can pool thier influence and get SOMEBODY elected.

It sucks that in the end, the most evolved decision in a democratic system is a binary one.  Am I wrong?

Offline AKS\/\/ulfe

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Is it possible to get more parties?
« Reply #1 on: October 05, 2004, 09:55:30 AM »
Why do we need parties at all?

Why can't president hopefulls run on issues and that's it?

For all the means of information to be distributed, they sure as **** aren't being used well.
-SW

Offline Dinger

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Is it possible to get more parties?
« Reply #2 on: October 05, 2004, 10:23:22 AM »
Of course you can have multiple parties.
The current system in the US, of course, is set up against it.
In some places, you see a parliamentary system where the heads of state must be elected by a majority. Often you'll see a bunch of small parties banding together to form coalitions.  Of course, the result is often something like Italy, where you have governments failing with some regularity due to shifting coalitions and demands.

In others, like France, you have a "runoff" system where, if no candidate has a majority, the top two vote-getters proceed to a second election. This leads to situations like France, where fragmentation among the many small leftist parties created a recent election featured a run-off between the mainstream right Chirac (yes, he's a conservative) and the neofascist Le Pen.

Of course, the US system, with a "winner take all" approach to electoral votes at the state level, and those electoral votes being assigned on some bizarre method of 2+the number of congressmen in the state, is pretty darn irrational too.
As Perot and Nader have shown, third parties often play the role of "spoiler", pushing the outcome of the presidential elections in the direction opposite to the general sentiment of the people.

You'd hope things were easier at the local, congressional and senatorial level, and to a certain degree they are, but remember that here is one area Democrats and Republicans can agree on: they don't want a third party mucking things up. At least they agreed until Bush had to be reelected (This is why the GOP support for Nader may make good short-term sense, but in the long term, it's a bad idea).
So they make rules to exclude third parties.  Heck, you can even earmark part of your income taxes to go to the GOP or DNC if you so choose.

That's also why these 527s (or whatever their number is) are so impressive: while their use in this election is rather limited, in theory they can control large sums of election money tied to issues instead of candidates.  Not that it's happened yet.

Offline Preon1

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Is it possible to get more parties?
« Reply #3 on: October 05, 2004, 10:52:09 AM »
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Originally posted by Dinger
Of course, the result is often something like Italy, where you have governments failing with some regularity due to shifting coalitions and demands.

Yeah, bad.  I guess I'd rather have some continuity than no real direction whatsoever.
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In others, like France, you have a "runoff" system where, if no candidate has a majority, the top two vote-getters proceed to a second election.[/B]

It sounds fair... it sounds expensive...  and it sounds so close to our primary system that it might not be worth it to change.
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Of course, the US system, with a "winner take all" approach to electoral votes at the state level, and those electoral votes being assigned on some bizarre method of 2+the number of congressmen in the state, is pretty darn irrational too. [/B]

I might be among the few here, but I like the electoral college.  I realize that it means that the president may be chosen by the whim of the people of Ohio, but if the race were purely by popular vote, then candidates would only campaign in major cities.  I imagine that the politics of NYC are a lot less flexible than the politics of Dayton, and flexibility can be a good thing.
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That's also why these 527s (or whatever their number is) are so impressive: while their use in this election is rather limited, in theory they can control large sums of election money tied to issues instead of candidates.  Not that it's happened yet. [/B]

Honestly, I really like 527s.  If somebody feels so strongly about an issue that they're willing to put that kind of effort into it, they should be allowed.  If I'm not being adequately represented by politicians, at least I can feel certain that a lot of my issues are being represented by lobbyists.

It's nice hearing from you again Dinger.  Glad that you're still doing well.

Offline straffo

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Is it possible to get more parties?
« Reply #4 on: October 05, 2004, 11:23:36 AM »
Preon I don't see how it's expensive ,at least I don't see how it's more expensive than other system.
Except that the candidates are using public founds (I bet you didn't knew that ;))

To be a candidate in France you have to be have 500 signatures of  senator/deputy/mayor...

What made the last election different is as Dinger wrote the fragmentation of the left
if the left had been less greedy Chirac won't have been elected and we will have a true socialo-lefto-commie president :)

Offline Krusher

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Is it possible to get more parties?
« Reply #5 on: October 05, 2004, 11:34:52 AM »
I voted for Perot twice in an effort to get a valid 3rd party.  I voted Libertarian in several local elections for the same reason.  I now feel it is impossible for a 3rd party to ever gain traction with the voters and will stick with the Republican party.