Author Topic: Suncom bought out! (Read 348 times)

fscott · « **on:** January 10, 2001, 03:42:00 PM »

Just a few days ago by some unnamed company from Illinios. What does this mean for CH and TM? I think they are in for some real competition, perhaps this ne comapny can give Suncom a little more marketing as they so desperately need.

It's amazing more people haven't been using their products? They are quality built and have imho the best looking and best feel of any throttle and stick I've used. Even the Tm22Pro. I realize the problem with the pots has probably sent people elsewhere. Recently I tried the CH Combatstick but couldn't stand the feel comared to the manly Suncom. Strange thing is they discontinued the SFS Stick USB which would work great with AH.

Funny thing is, a couple friends and myself were prepared to make an equity investment offer to Suncom and we even had the paperwork drawn up. I regret that we didn't. We had several design issues that could've been implemented including a semi die-cast metal stick and base, and inner workings, to give it a semi-realistic feel. Other design adjustments would have been a slightly longer throw and heavier coiled spring which the new metal base would be able to handle. Of course it would be all USB. I was seriously considering this because I am a firm believer that this stick has it. All it needed was a little extra funding and some marketing to get it on the store shelves worldwide. I hope the new company will consider improving along the lines that I have mentioned. I have a letter typed and ready to go as soon as I find out who bought them out. If anyone knows please let me know.

fscott

eddiek · « **Reply #1 on:** January 10, 2001, 03:59:00 PM »

Are you referring to the SFS HOTAS setup, the one offered in a "crate combo"?
I liked the looks of it, but was wanting to get some feedback from others who might've used one somewhere in the past.
I kinda wanted to use it with a set of rudder pedals, maybe CH Pro Pedals, but no one had anything good to say. As a matter of fact, the only mention I got was someone who knew someone else that had not liked the Suncom product.
fscott, tell me: How good IS the product?
I know opinions vary, i.e., I tried and still have a Logitech Wingman Digital Extreme 3D stick, but the rudder/twist handle part went haywire on me, spikey as hell, and no way that I could find to fix the damn thing. Others loved the Logitech, and some, like me, seemed to get the lemons.

AKDejaVu · « **Reply #2 on:** January 10, 2001, 04:01:00 PM »

They have a pretty good product list at http://www.suncominc.com

How any real p-38 enthusiast could resist buying that dual throttle is beyond me.

AKDejaVu

-duma- · « **Reply #3 on:** January 10, 2001, 04:02:00 PM »

Suncom say they're still developing the F-15E Talon USB, but god knows when it'll be released... 1 1/2 years overdue now I think! Fantastic quality though.

fscott · « **Reply #4 on:** January 10, 2001, 04:10:00 PM »

Eddiek, if you can find the Suncom SFS Controller USB stick then get that one. It works as a simple 2-axis 4 button 4-way HAT stick, but you can program all the buttons to work in AH. The Talon is the programmable version with an added 4-way hat. You can directly program each key with a simple keyboard press. The downside is that it is currently only available in gameport analog version. They use linear pots which have an inherent spiking problem. I have been able to fix the spiking for the most part by dissasembling the pots down to their bare nuts and bolts, and then tightening up the little springs inside, and also a good cleaning.

As far as how good they FEEL, well, the resistance is between the CH stick and the TM F22 Pro. It has a relatively short throw. You can increase the tension as MUCH as you want by inserting rubber shims betwen the top of the coil spring and the underside of the top plating. Heck, you could make it feel like a TM22 if you wanted. That's because it is built with some very heavy plastic unlike our friends over at CH. All in all the feel is like no other. If you have big hands (your a real man), then get one. For $25 it's a steal, for a stick that should be selling at $60. Don't even get me started on the SFS throttle. Superb..awesome..real.

fscott

fscott · « **Reply #5 on:** January 10, 2001, 04:18:00 PM »

Correction. The SFS stick has one 8-way hat.

fscott

Replicant · « **Reply #6 on:** January 10, 2001, 04:42:00 PM »

Duma, I used to have a Talon F15E stick way back and agree it's a lovely stick. Hope they build a more up to date stick with more functions but in same kind of style. This style of stick is also used in Harrier GR7s, though throttle in GR7 is evil!

Nexx

Tac · « **Reply #7 on:** January 10, 2001, 06:27:00 PM »

"They have a pretty good product list at http://www.suncominc.com
How any real p-38 enthusiast could resist buying that dual throttle is beyond me."

I bought and currently use their throttle. It is REALLY good. Fully programmable, lets you plug ANY other joystick to it (unlike those $#@$ TM products), lets you program the buttons your "other" joystick (aka, the flight stick). Dual throttle is wonderfull..makes them P-38's turn REALLY good hehe. Its plug and play and programming the buttons is a matter of putting the TCS in program mode (one button click), click desired button on joystick then click button on keyboard and you got it programmed in. It also has 2 switches.. you can have up to 4 programmed sets.

I got one of them for my p38, one for my Yak and one for CV gunning (zoom controls instead of dive flaps and stuff)

I got it plugged with my cheap TM Top Gun. Only problem I had was that the HAT on the TM stick ceases to work when plugged with the TCS.. but who cares? the TCS has TWO 8-way hat switches =)

In short.. I LOVE IT

Wardog · « **Reply #8 on:** January 10, 2001, 06:30:00 PM »

Suncom is a piece o crap anyway..

bouth ther f16 talon 3 or 4 years ago, within 2 months the small metal pin at the base of the stick snapped, this small pin centers the stick. I had a CH Pro before i bought the Suncom. Best little stick ive owned. Thought id try Suncom because the size and looks.

Needless to say, ill never by another Suncom stick in this lifetime. Pure waste of money.

BTW, after the Suncom went i picked up the CH F16 Combat stick. I love it so much i bought another as backup

Dog out..........

fscott · « **Reply #9 on:** January 10, 2001, 07:09:00 PM »

Goes to show how perspective is the only factor in what is considered a piece of crap and what isn't. I think just the opposite of the CH line of cheaply molded plastic. See my perspective is different. I will never buy another CH stick. Pure waste of money.

fscott

Wardog · « **Reply #10 on:** January 10, 2001, 07:23:00 PM »

Hehe..

CH Pro 6 years. Maintenance: Clean Pots every 2 years.
CH F16 Combat Stick 4 years. Maintenance: Cleaned pots once, 2 years ago.

Suncom F16 Talon 2 months. Maintenance: Threw it out and bought CH stick..

Now you tell me what my perspective is suppose to be..

I started flyin AW DOS in 1989 and have been flying online since, perspective has nothing to do with my choice of Jsticks. Quality does, getting the job done and done well does. A Jstick lasting 6 years is just a bonus.

Will go with my experience over your perspection any day of the year

You didnt read my 1st post or maybe you skipped right by the part where the pin at the bottom of the stick that keeps it centered snapped. And you think this is my perspective.

Or you just trying to be a dick?

Dog out..

Andy Bush · « **Reply #11 on:** January 10, 2001, 07:35:00 PM »

The Suncom stick and throttle combo is an inexpensive HOTAS system that adequately meets simmer's needs. Is it the best gear available...probably not. But for its price, it offers considerable value. Two years ago, I tried the gear out and wrote this review:
www.doitnow.com/~alfakilo/Suncom.doc

Did I keep the gear? No...I use TM gear. But I did give it to my son, and he worked it hard!! All in all, not a bad piece of gear.

Andy

[This message has been edited by Andy Bush (edited 01-10-2001).]

fd ski · « **Reply #12 on:** January 10, 2001, 10:20:00 PM »

have a SFS HOTAS system and Talon - all sit on a shelf.
Stick is way too large for a good control. The trigger -> key mapping is a real pain in a bellybutton and you can't use two triggers at once, same for trigger and hat.
Throttle is so stiff that you would have to nail it to the table to use it comfortably.

Support is nonexistant. God forbid if you ever need to call them.

I've used TM, suncom, now i'm CH user and you'll have to pry my CH stick out of my cold, dead hands....

------------------
Bartlomiej Rajewski
aka. Wing Commander fd-ski
Northolt Wing
1st Polish Fighter Wing
303 (Polish) Squadron "Kosciuszko" RAF
308 (Polish) Squadron "City of Cracow" RAF
315 (Polish) Squadron "City of Deblin" RAF

Turning 109s and 190s into scrap metal since 1998

Northolt Wing Headquarters

SOB · « **Reply #13 on:** January 10, 2001, 10:33:00 PM »

Any pot problems aside, Suncom makes some nice gear. They didn't come out with a re-hash of someone else's product, they designed a great joystick from the bottom up, including the centering mechanism that gives it it's unique feel. Not to mention coming out with a dual-throttle setup.

Programming may not be as advanced as some, but it gets the job done, and is really incredibly simple to do.

As for CH, I don't personally like their feel (light spring tension), but I don't know how you could possibly call them cheap plastic. IIRC CH does their own injection molding, and they do it very well. And unless you plan on throwing your stick across the room, I'm not sure why it would make a difference. I haven't seen a joystick yet that didn't have a plastic shaft connecting the stick to the base (except the Guillemot/tm stuff coming out...eventually

).

Remember, just because it feels light when you pick it up, doesn't mean it's cheesey. Hell, half of the low-end ThrustMaster joysticks have a metal bottom-plate. While this does nothing for structural integrity, it's amazing how people's minds can be fooled into thinking quality when picking up a joystick that feels heavy and substantial.

SOB

fscott · « **Reply #14 on:** January 10, 2001, 10:45:00 PM »

Wardog, what I'm saying is that experience creates perspective. Your experience with the Suncom was bad, so therefore all Suncom products are bad. My experience with CH was that they do not have enough resistance, and the little plastic prongs which hold the ends of the tension springs are way too little to be able to add any larger springs. An inspection of the plastic inside the CH stick shows very flimsy light plastic walls which bend with the lightest touch once you have it dis-assembled.

And then we are talking about a waste of money? $25 for some quality workmanship, aside form the cheap pots, versus $80 for a very cheaply made stick - the CH, how in the world can $25 be a waste of money.

This is where I seen the value in the company and their product. And going back to the point of topic, all they need is a little better marketing and some funds to enhance their product, and BOOM, you have one heck of a design win.

fscott