Author Topic: Dmf  (Read 1470 times)

Offline rpm

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« Reply #15 on: October 04, 2004, 11:42:26 AM »
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Which lab gets to be "First Lady" ? ;) (or would that title be changed to "First Biatch"?)

Nancy Reagan's back?
My mind is a raging torrent, flooded with rivulets of thought cascading into a waterfall of creative alternatives.
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Offline MrLars

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« Reply #16 on: October 04, 2004, 11:45:40 AM »
With turnout estimates running in the 58-64% range any prediction of outcome without considering factors other than 'likely voters' could be off by a wide margin. This is why current polls should be viewed with a huge grain of salt.

Just google for stories regarding voter registration, some counties are reporting huge increases in new registrations. These people don't get polled hardly at all.

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #17 on: October 04, 2004, 12:06:52 PM »
It appears that if held today.... Bush would get between 290 and 300 electorial votes.   He is doing better than he did with gore.   He would win handily.   howard stern, michelle more and a handful of canadians not withstanding.

I must say that while I am no great fan of Bush I am pleased.

If Kerrie pulls it out some how tho....

I will survive... I survived under klinton and I will survive under kerrie.

and lars... new regestrations may not be the boon to your cause that you expect since there is a decided shift to the right in college students lately.

lazs

Offline MrLars

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« Reply #18 on: October 04, 2004, 01:31:08 PM »
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Originally posted by lazs2


and lars... new regestrations may not be the boon to your cause that you expect since there is a decided shift to the right in college students lately.

lazs


From my experience helping to register college students I'd say the reality is just the opposite. In California, Oregon and Colorado, my personal experience as well as those of 40 of my fellow 'activists' show an advantage to Democrats on the order of 68% to 32%.

It all boils down to who actualy votes and by what numbers. The left is much more motivated this election cycle than ever.

I'll be driving shuttles for two local retirement communities to their polling places as my last effort to get out the vote this year and we are coordinating with 'Meals on Wheels' to do the same for the shut-ins.

We'll see, won't we. < insert stupid smiley emoticon here >

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #19 on: October 04, 2004, 02:34:59 PM »
yes lars... of course.. we will see.    to predict at this point is probly premature.

even so... I predict that all your efforts will swing Californias electorial votes to the socialist kerrie.

At this point, you will easily be able to get kerrie into the 200 range for electorial votes in the election.    

As I have said... my vote for Bush is pretty wasted in California but I have other things to vote for while in the booth so it is not much more effort to vote for Bush while I am at it.

I do think that you should be ashamed at taking advantage of young mush brains and poor old people.   kinda low I would say.

lazs

Offline Steve

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« Reply #20 on: October 04, 2004, 03:25:34 PM »
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But... heh... I disagree with ya on just about every conclusion you drew.


LOL, you're so biased that you have no hope of seeing reality, even were it a train 'bout to mow you down.


Quote
Exactly right... What has Bush done, and what will Kerry do? It's a choice between bad ....


Please, tell me all the bad things Bush has done.


Oh, and I beg you since I am unable to find it, take a moment to tell me exactly what Kerry's foreign policy is. Please, tell me.
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Offline Toad

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« Reply #21 on: October 04, 2004, 03:32:06 PM »
Kerry's foreign policy on Iraq is one I just love. He's probably right that the United States has incurred 90 percent of the casualties and paid 90 percent of the cost of the Iraqi conflict.

Somehow, perhaps through sweet talk, intimate evenings in the hot tub and massages with slightly warmed Heinz ketchup, he's going to persuade the Germans and French to send their sons to die in Iraq in place of ours and get them to pay for the experience.

I admire a "plan" like that one. It's good to have a foreign policy so well grounded in the "possible". What is that guy smokin', anyway?

As for the polls, the two since the debate essentially show a return to a tie. The "Bush bounce" from the convention is clearly gone but neither guy has any lead that isn't covered by the spread in the margin of error.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Lizard3

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« Reply #22 on: October 04, 2004, 06:27:34 PM »
New Polls are out...

Nash is conversely bouncing about his apartment pulling his hair out and lying in a puddle of tears bawlin his eyes out.
"why...why...he WON...he WON the debate...."

Offline Nash

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« Reply #23 on: October 04, 2004, 07:24:17 PM »
You're definitely not seeing what I'm seeing, Liz...

I have zero doubt about what is going to happen on the 2nd.

Offline Steve

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« Reply #24 on: October 04, 2004, 07:32:36 PM »
I'm waiting, Nash.
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Offline TweetyBird

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« Reply #25 on: October 04, 2004, 07:40:33 PM »
>>Somehow, perhaps through sweet talk, intimate evenings in the hot tub and massages with slightly warmed Heinz ketchup, he's going to persuade the Germans and French to send their sons to die in Iraq in place of ours and get them to pay for the experience.
<<

Toad, neither candidate can give an exit strategy for Iraq - BECAUSE THERE IS NONE.  We might as well get it through our heads, there will never be a way for the US to exit the region.

Now of course some might dispute this - please feel free to post a possible exit strategy that doesn't compromise the vast oil resources of Iraq. You start, Toad.

Offline Toad

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« Reply #26 on: October 04, 2004, 08:09:50 PM »
Be glad to.

Here's how I see it. It's not an "exit strategy" for anyone but me, OK?

1. We invaded a sovereign nation, something we haven't done real often, with the intent of removing the existing government from power. The "why's" of that decision have been beaten to death, so let's skip that part.

2. Since we were the "prime mover" in removing said government, it is our responsibility to replace said government, or more correctly, to enable the people of Iraq to replace that government through free elections monitored by the UN.

3. It obviously isn't going to be easy because there is an obvious underlying struggle for power in Iraq. This struggle is not based around any sort of "free elections", it is base around coercion.

4. We have various elements that have no interest in having a democratic Iraq. There are our external obvious enemies like A-Q, there are less obvious internal and external enemies like Muslim fundamentalist religious wackos that want power for themselves, there are AT LEAST three distinct internal factions that want as much power as they can grab (Kurds, Sunnis, Shias) and there are external Muslim governments that may have designs on Iraqi influence (Iran, Syria) and there are external non-Muslim governments that would like to see us fail miserably. I'll let you guess at the top contenders there.

5. So what do we have? Basically, we have all the makings of a lovely Civil War in Iraq with lots of external instigators.

6. My exit strategy is pretty simple. We're responsible. We have to stay until they have a somewhat stable government up and running with the necessary attendant supporting institutions. You'll need an Executive Branch, a Legislative Branch and a Judiciary. You'll need Army, Education, Public Health and other supporting players.

We have to provide security until they can hold elections, maybe even a few rounds of elections. We have to help them rebuild the ancillary institutions.

It's going to take our soldier's lives. A lot more of them.

It's going to take more billions. A lot more of them.

It's going to take years. At least 4-5, maybe even 10 of them.

And when we've done all that, we can leave. Oh, we may "draw down" through the years but until they get their stuff together, we have to be the one's that ensure they have a chance.

Anything else is a far worse "solution" that will rebound to haunt us for 100 years.

Cutting and running before this is done will only encourage our enemies, rouse their bloodlust to an even greater degree and endanger the US even further.

We HAVE to leave it better than we found it. WAY better. Or we'll pay far more than we're paying now in blood and treasure.

As for Kerry expecting ANY other nation not presently involved to "report for duty".......... he's forking crazier than a bedbug.

NOBODY in their collective governmental right minds would want to jump into this now. Particularly governments that fought against this all the way and are now enjoying their "told you so" moments.

The French and Germans aren't going to send their sons to die for a "free and democratic Iraq". They're not going to spend national treasure to that end either. Kerry's nutso on that plan; he probably knows that too. But hey... he has a "plan".


BTW, I spent the weekend hunting on Ft. Riley. I probably talked to a dozen soldiers that we met in the fields. EVERY single one was recently back from Iraq, some a month or two, some only a week or two.  Lt. Col down to PFC ranks. I did not meet even ONE that thought the news media here was painting a fair picture of Iraq. Every single one said it's not as bad as the media portrays. Small sample, I know,  but there you are.

Now, your turn Etch.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2004, 08:28:15 PM by Toad »
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Nash

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« Reply #27 on: October 04, 2004, 08:22:16 PM »
I should say right now (and consider it blanket for all my posts)...

I APPROVE OF THIS OR ANY OFF TOPIC POSTS IN ANY OF MY THREADS.

Really Skuzzy, I don't mind... Let 'em go.

It would be like getting punched in the gut to write something so well as Toad did, then find it replaced by "off topic". Don't do it man....
« Last Edit: October 04, 2004, 08:42:24 PM by Nash »

Offline NUKE

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« Reply #28 on: October 04, 2004, 08:37:18 PM »
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Originally posted by TweetyBird
Toad, neither candidate can give an exit strategy for Iraq - BECAUSE THERE IS NONE.  We might as well get it through our heads, there will never be a way for the US to exit the region.

 


Man, you're right! We might as well just all kill ourselves then.... Throw in the towel, that's the American way!

Kerry has "a plan"..."a better plan" and he "can do better" and do it "the right way". If those aren't some great plans, tell me what is? Very inspiring.

Offline Steve

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« Reply #29 on: October 04, 2004, 08:43:44 PM »
Ya, what is his plan?  

Nash doesn't know, even though he favors Kerry over Bush(he just can't tell you why he does).

does anyone know his plan?
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