trimming

[63tb]

Folks,

I need some help understanding how to trim my plane. I like flying early war stuff, especially the Zero and the Wildcat. With both of them I find that the plane wants to continually climb. So I add some elevator down trim until the plane flys level. However when I get in combat I'm not sure what to do. Should I leave it trimmed for level flight or trim it some other way?

thanks

63tb

[Delirium]

I fly the P38 primarily, its alot easier to trim than any single engine aircraft unless I have battle damage or I'm carrying an uneven load out (1/2 empty drop tank and an egg).

I tend to trim the aircraft almost constantly most notably in a dive or a 'rope' climb. I'd recommend you trim as much as you can without taking away your attention during the fight.

On a lighter note, once I actually used my elevator trim to land my P38 when I had no elevators. Using the trim tab like the stick I was able to bring it in for a landing.

Accurate? No, but good comic relief.

[xHaMmeRx]

Here is Lephturn's Article on Trimming. It should help you decide how to trim.

One of the key things to remember is that trim is very speed dependent. If you are level trim for one speed, going slower tends to put you nose down while going faster tends to put you nose up. You have to decide what trim settings you are comfortable flying with.

[TequilaChaser]

Originally posted by xHaMmeRx
If you are level trim for one speed, going slower tends to put you nose down while going faster tends to put you nose up.

that sounds backwards to me Hammer,  especially if someone is using combat trim

[xHaMmeRx]

TC,

What I was saying is without combat trim.  Trimming level for 300mph, for example, tends to be a little elevator down in most, if not all, planes. As speed decreases, and you don't adjust the trim, your nose will drop because there is less lift on the wings due to less airflow from less speed.  

Combat trim does the same thing (elevator down) at speeds. That is why planes like the 109s and P38 "lock up" if you leave combat trim on.

At least, that is how I understand it

[63tb]

That brings up another point. Is Combat Trim like an "auto-trim"? If so is there a reason I wouldn't want to use that?

63tb

ps - thanks for the article on trimming!

[xHaMmeRx]

63tb,

Yes, combat trim is like auto-trim and yes, there is a reason you might not want to use it.

On many planes, such as the 109 and P-38, combat trim tends to "lock" the controls at high speeds. This often causes the "lawn-dart" effect. On other planes, you will find those who prefer combat trim and those who prefer to trim manually. I have read threads arguing the virtues of each and it's much like our political system: both sides swear they are right .

If you are new to the game, manually trimming is a detail you can probably live without for a while. Use combat trim. If you are trying to learn trim, all you can do is experiment and see what works best for you.

[TequilaChaser]

Originally posted by xHaMmeRx
TC,

What I was saying is without combat trim.  Trimming level for 300mph, for example, tends to be a little elevator down in most, if not all, planes. As speed decreases, and you don't adjust the trim, your nose will drop because there is less lift on the wings due to less airflow from less speed.  

Combat trim does the same thing (elevator down) at speeds. That is why planes like the 109s and P38 "lock up" if you leave combat trim on.

At least, that is how I understand it

ah yes Hammer,
that  is much clearer,  I knew how it works, just did not gather it from your first post is all.  

[MaddogJoe]

I fly the 38 alot, andhave done a couple of things...

First I have it set NOT to have the "combat" trim on. This means I have to manually trim every plane I fly.

Second, I mapped a switch on my joystick to toggle on and off the "combat" trim.

The main reason I don't use combat trim is it automatically trys to trim the plane. This can not only hurt you as in the post above, but also in stall manuvres. The 38 zooms great, and as you climb almost strait up the combat trim will try to trim the plane out for the slower speeds and you pretty much get "stuck" in the air. By manually setting the trim I can get my 38 to 75 knots and still manuver it.

Now the reason I have the combat trim set to my stick.... if your flying lvl at 300 and you flick the combat trim on then off again, it will trim your plane out for lvl flight at 300. No need to mess with settings, just flick it on then off.... ok so its kinda like cheating, but I don't always have time to be fiddleing with the trim levers  

[fuzeman]

One area where manual trim will help anyone is getting a wounded bird back to base, regardless of plaane type. It can really surprize you the first time you do it and get back to base with many parts missing.

[Murdr]

To expand on what was already said...Combat trim 'tries' to trim your plane to the effect that if you let go of the stick your plane will not pitch or yaw.  The advantage of that is you have a stable gun platform.  In a boom and zoom engagment, it is a help to have the nose staying neutral.

In combat, having yaw trimmed neutral is very important.  If your yaw trim is not balanced your plane will want to depart to the unbalanced side in a hard turn.  
Elevator trim in combat turns is not as important.  Since lift and loss of lift happens at the wing, the critical factor is the pitch of the wings in relation to direction of travel.  Elevators are merely the tool to change that pitch.  Therefore it doesnt matter whether you are gaining pitch with trim, elevator input, or in combination of the two, the lift the wing can provide at a given angle is still the same.  I mention this because there is a myth that setting trim tabs max up will make your plane turn tighter, but the limitations on your planes turning ability happens at the wings, not the tail.  So my answer to the original question would be, dont bother adjusting elevator trim in 'turn and burn' combat.

One more factor to consider when using combat trim.  When you are turning you displace more air, which in turn slows your plane.  As you slow combat trim adjust elevator tabs up, which in effect adds elevator input.  If you are riding the edge, that extra input may send you over the edge if you are not prepared to compensate for it.

[MaddogJoe]

ya know, I think the biggest prolem I have learning this stuff is the stuff you guys talk about just "flies" right over my head !  LOL!!!

I'm just a poor ol' country boy skooled down at the littl' red skool house down the road !!! go easy on me guys ! LOL!! Once I run all that info through my "decoder" though, it make very good sence.

Thanks for taking the time to respond to use poor unfortunates

[debuman]

On a slightly related subject....
Does turning off the "stall limiter" thing help or not?  It seems lie with it on it helps 'cuz no matter how hard you pull on the stick - you don't stall out and go into a spin.  Does turning it off enable those with good stick and rudder skills to out turn those who leave it turned on?
It might be good for those of us who are still relatively new if some one could go thru the list of flight preferences (auto take off,etc.) and tell us what the advantages and/or disadvantages to selecting or de-selecting these things are.  Anybody care to do that for us?  Please??????

[Kweassa]

Stall limiter is a function which negates player input resulting in a stall. It works by limiting the input of the stick when a certain set amount of degrees before max AoA is reached. I think the default is 2 degrees before max AoA - this setting can't be changed in the MA.

 This may not seem much, but IIRC a real life Spitfire pulls about 20~25 degrees before it stalls out. So 2 degrees is a big "buffer". The good thing about this is with the stall limiter on you can yank the stick all day and not see a single accelerated stall, but those who use it won't be able to exploit the plane to its fullest. Riding the stalls into tough, tricky, delicate maneuvers for instance, is a no go with SL on.

[Murdr]

In any kind of competition the difference between winning and losing is often a matter of pushing abilities to the limit without surpassing it.  With stall limiter on, you cant even find the limit and become familer with it.  Beyond using stall limiter while familerizing with the AH flight model, I dont see any advantage to using it.

Auto take off is a convience.  I use it.  Some who place more value on realism immersion dont.  As long as you are able to take off manually when needed, I dont see a disadvantage with it.

Tracers are usefull in learning the ballistics model.  They do eventually place a cap on your gunnery.  People settle into relying on walking tracers on to the target, rather than waiting for the right sight picture to fire.  'No tracers' force a person to take their gunnery skills to the next level.  It also adds an element of surprise aginst the enemy when they do not know they are being shot at until they are hit.  I turn them off/on depending on confidence of my gunnery at a given time.

Combat trim has already been covered pretty well.