Question?

[o0Stream140o]

I have heard a lot about "GangBanging". I would just like to get the Combat Theater "Offical" definition of it.

[Oldman731]

Originally posted by o0Stream140o
I have heard a lot about "GangBanging". I would just like to get the Combat Theater "Offical" definition of it.

From my perspective, it's 3 or more v. 1.

Unless the one initiates it, that is.

- oldman

[Dennis]

I'd agree with OM.  But there's nothing "official" about the definition.

Splash1

[Squire]

Nobody has a problem doing it, many have a problem when they are on the receiving end. As for definitions, is it important? it wont change anything publishing a CT dictionary, I guarantee that.

[Wotan]

3 on 1 is a fun fight...

above more then 5 I would say its "ganging"...

If you think about lotsa guys will fly together in pairs or threes. When they spot a bad guy part of the fun is working together to kill him.

In this case it woudn't matter if its 1 guy or 6 they are attacking. You just spot enemies and work togther to kill them. It can be fun as the one being attcked in this type of situation because you can look for anoportunity to exploit their mistakes

Ganging is where you have like 5 guys fighting each just to get an easy kill. No real tactics just keep spraying unitl you get a team kill or the bad guy either way is fine.

[TheBug]

Originally posted by Wotan


If you think about lotsa guys will fly together in pairs or threes. When they spot a bad guy part of the fun is working together to kill him.

In this case it woudn't matter if its 1 guy or 6 they are attacking. You just spot enemies and work togther to kill them. It can be fun as the one being attcked in this type of situation because you can look for anoportunity to exploit their mistakes


 

Kinda shock myself typing it, but nice post Wotan.

[Slash27]

That about covered Wotan.

[o0Stream140o]

Exactly my point, I don't think anyone in the CT Gangbangs.  I just think most of the guys in the CT think of themselves as a single ship, not part of an element, flight, or squadron.  Don't get me wrong it does happen in the CT, but I don't think it is as much as people think.  

I know there are a lot of guys in the CT that fly alone, but you can't say that you get gangbanged just because you didn't keep your SA up.  I know it happens to me.  If there are 3 or 4 enemy fighters in the same area... get the heck out of dodge and reposition yourself where you can engage again.   It's tactics and displine that win the fight not numbers all the time.

Read my sig... that's how I will fly in the CT... if you feel that is gangbang... my apologizes now...

[Redd]

Originally posted by Wotan
3 on 1 is a fun fight...

above more then 5 I would say its "ganging"...

If you think about lotsa guys will fly together in pairs or threes. When they spot a bad guy part of the fun is working together to kill him.

In this case it woudn't matter if its 1 guy or 6 they are attacking. You just spot enemies and work togther to kill them. It can be fun as the one being attcked in this type of situation because you can look for anoportunity to exploit their mistakes

Ganging is where you have like 5 guys fighting each just to get an easy kill. No real tactics just keep spraying unitl you get a team kill or the bad guy either way is fine.

3 on 1 is a fun fight ?  4 on 1 is not a gang bang ? Nah I'm with oldman , any more than 2 on 1, is not necessary.

[Rafe35]

I have been Gang Bang alot, what Storch told me

[storch]

What OM said

[Dennis]

Originally posted by o0Stream140o
Read my sig... that's how I will fly in the CT... if you feel that is gangbang... my apologizes now...

From Oldman's definition and the others, your sig doesn't describe a 'gangbang.'  Although 1v2 can certainly be a challenge, particularly if the 2 are high and fast, as you fellows generally are.

At the risk of getting off on a tangent, ... Unlike a lot of folks, I've always thought large squads were a bad thing for a low-populated arena like the CT.  They tend to throw off the side balancing.  
A number of small squads might not have that effect, assuming some of them were willing to switch sides when needed ... but, alas, many aren't.  And you can't really blame them -- if they've set up their squad based on a historic unit whose plane is available in the setup.

But being part of a two-ship element isn't a vaccination against gang-banging, either.  Note that 3:1 also translates into 6:2 .. or even a lower ratio as numbers increase.

You mention SA.  It's a good point to size up a fight before getting into it. If you're alone or a small element, don't fly into a big red blob on the map. Oldman's definition also covered this.
In fact, I did a lot of "threat assessment" over the past week while I was flying the A6M2 against all the late-war allied iron. (check my k/d vs. k/t. ... a lot of flying around -- not many fights).  

Now, this sort of thing can be fun, if you're into more of a "sim" experience than a "game" experience.  But I think most CT flyers are looking for a fight ... and unless they're participating in a "mishun" are loath to spend a lot of time looking only for situations where they can enter the fight with an advantage.  Most, I say.

Ultimately, I don't think I really have a salient point to make here.  Most people who find themselves outnumbered 3 or more to 1 in a dogfight are going to feel like they've been ganged.  That's just the way it is.  Whether it was their fault or the situation changed after the fight began.

And frankly, any squad that feels it has to send more than one 2-ship element to dispatch a single con shouldn't be surprised if they get called 'gangbangers.'

Splash1

[storch]

Originally posted by Dennis
From Oldman's definition and the others, your sig doesn't describe a 'gangbang.'  Although 1v2 can certainly be a challenge, particularly if the 2 are high and fast, as you fellows generally are.

At the risk of getting off on a tangent, ... Unlike a lot of folks, I've always thought large squads were a bad thing for a low-populated arena like the CT.  They tend to throw off the side balancing.  
A number of small squads might not have that effect, assuming some of them were willing to switch sides when needed ... but, alas, many aren't.  And you can't really blame them -- if they've set up their squad based on a historic unit whose plane is available in the setup.

But being part of a two-ship element isn't a vaccination against gang-banging, either.  Note that 3:1 also translates into 6:2 .. or even a lower ratio as numbers increase.

You mention SA.  It's a good point to size up a fight before getting into it. If you're alone or a small element, don't fly into a big red blob on the map. Oldman's definition also covered this.
In fact, I did a lot of "threat assessment" over the past week while I was flying the A6M2 against all the late-war allied iron. (check my k/d vs. k/t. ... a lot of flying around -- not many fights).  

Now, this sort of thing can be fun, if you're into more of a "sim" experience than a "game" experience.  But I think most CT flyers are looking for a fight ... and unless they're participating in a "mishun" are loath to spend a lot of time looking only for situations where they can enter the fight with an advantage.  Most, I say.

Ultimately, I don't think I really have a salient point to make here.  Most people who find themselves outnumbered 3 or more to 1 in a dogfight are going to feel like they've been ganged.  That's just the way it is.  Whether it was their fault or the situation changed after the fight began.

And frankly, any squad that feels it has to send more than one 2-ship element to dispatch a single con shouldn't be surprised if they get called 'gangbangers.'

Splash1

Remarkably, I agree with you Dennis.  I would add that at times, if one is on their game and with enough audacity a well paired element can dispatch many times their number.  I have been on the giving and receiving end of such encounters.

[o0Stream140o]

Originally posted by Dennis
And frankly, any squad that feels it has to send more than one 2-ship element to dispatch a single con shouldn't be surprised if they get called 'gangbangers.

Splash1

I have to disagree with you on this Splash, 2 elements (4 ships) can be used to put constant pressure on a bogey . One element in, one element up.  When one is up, the other is in, knocking the bogey down.  Keeping the advantage that the Flight had.  Team tactics is what we are practicing.

What I meant on the sig was that "I" will not be flying alone.

I was told one by a good pilot once "practice how you fly, and fly how you practice."  That is what I am trying to teach my guys.

Like I said before, if you think this is "Ganging" I am apologizing in advance.

[Dennis]

Yeah, I thought about that scenerio as I wrote my reply, Stream ... but I was already rambling.

4 v 1 ... whether it's 4 at once or 2+2 v 1 ... is going to be perceived as a gangbang by most people.   No real need to apologize for it, though, since that's not going to make the guy who's just been ripped a new one feel any better about it.

I understand where you're coming from on the wingman tactics, and you fellows really have it going on in that regard.  
My own experience with squads is that I died a lot more often when I flew with one.  Problem is that my SA is tuned to protecting my own butt. As soon as I started worrying about my wingman's -- some bandit would latch onto my six.

That's something I could probably overcome with training.  But I, like a lot of other players, mostly just like to get in there and mix it up in a WWII flight sim.  Missions, Snapshots, Special Events & such all have their strengths, true.  But I think of the CT (efforts to change it notwithstanding) as a dogfight arena.  It's just like the MA, but with better planesets.  I'd like to save the "re-enacting" for other venues.

But that's just me.  We can all play as we like.  We just shouldn't be surprised when Ch1 lights up with complaints when differing philosophies collide.

Splash1