An observation

[storch]

To the few mostly MA players that have commented on the CT being the same as the MA.  http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=132261
A reply provided goes straight to the heart of the matter for me.  Slapshot provides a rebuttal stating how in his opinion a base can be captured with 10 players.  It also goes a long way to explaining why I dislike the MA.  The hodgepodge of aircraft that don't belong on the same side annoys me.  I have learned to differentiate the the sounds of friendly and enemy fighters a skill that has no value in the MA.

[Arlo]

Ahhh yes .. hehe ....

Soundpacks in the MA are nothing but soundcandy ... but to us it's another valuable tool.

I tend to agree with you about what the obvious and actual intended differences are between the MA and the CT. The CT was never designed to be a refuge from poor sportsmanship or gamey tactics.

However ...

To foster the growth of the CT, it appears we have to consider the big pic ... for everyone.

IF what few potential recruits we get leave on the basis that this arena doesn't foster an atmosphere of play that's a cut above the MA, then perhaps we may need to reflect on that a bit.

I'm not talking about going to ridiculous extremes such as everyone swearing an oath to only fight 1v1 and to never face shoot and to always be trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, etc ....

But maybe it couldn't hurt for some "scenario ground rules" to be laid out from time to time to at least let us look less chaotic than the MA.

[storch]

Originally posted by Arlo
Ahhh yes .. hehe ....

Soundpacks in the MA are nothing but soundcandy ... but to us it's another valuable tool.

I tend to agree with you about what the obvious and actual intended differences are between the MA and the CT. The CT was never designed to be a refuge from poor sportsmanship or gamey tactics.

However ...

To foster the growth of the CT, it appears we have to consider the big pic ... for everyone.

IF what few potential recruits we get leave on the basis that this arena doesn't foster an atmosphere of play that's a cut above the MA, then perhaps we may need to reflect on that a bit.

I'm not talking about going to ridiculous extremes such as everyone swearing an oath to only fight 1v1 and to never face shoot and to always be trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, etc ....

But maybe it couldn't hurt for some "scenario ground rules" to be laid out from time to time to at least let us look less chaotic than the MA.

Yes I agree.  the time has come for some very basic ground rules.  Yes I agree.  we should all reflect on how individual behavior impacts the "new guy".   my post wasn't meant to be taken as an "I hate all MA types" bash thread, merely an attempt to communicate the basic differences between arenas.  Certain things strike me as odd, for instance JG3 an MA LW squad which I was once a member of hardly ever flies anything other than allied AC.  Last week we had the JBs (Jabostaffel a quasi LW squad?) enter the arena, all up P38s and commence to pork and badmouth. hmmmm.  Having agreed with you on the soundness of some basic rules let me state this contradiction.  All well and good fly what you want, play how you want.  Trash talk all you want, however there are some differences in the style and the substance of play between the two arenas.

[Arlo]

On reflection, yeah I kinda threw in a tangent viewpoint.

I seem to get the feeling that most everyone is kinda waiting to see what comes of TOD when it comes to considering the CT as a viable option to their frustration with the MA. Too bad. I think TOD is awhile in coming and the CT still has great potential.

The problem I see is that, even with the complaints that the CT is identical to the MA (except for historical matchups, 2-sided set-ups, realistic terrains .... you know ... all the stuff that really doesn't matter) .... many players wander in expecting the CT to be different when they, themselves, aren't willing to adopt a different mindset.

Yeah ... I think we're on the same page there.

Question is .. how do we try to change that?

[storch]

Sadly, "we" can't change anything.  The question and quest are as old as time.  I can't change myself, let alone anyone else.  change is gradual and primarily the work of time.  We had an opportunity to attempt to make changes to the CT in this "election" thing and the best candidate who IMO would have been the greatest catalyst for change within this backwater arena was rejected.  Oh well.

[Arlo]

"War" ain't over yet. Duke and Squire are stepping up to the plate. Biggest thing we got that'll slow down change for now is the holidays. Staffers generally aren't immune to family obligation.

I figure with the impending release of the Ki-84/B-24/T-34 patch, there will be some interesting things occur pretty soon. We'll see some players return. We'll see some differences in setups.

What we despirately need are terrains. But I shouldn't harp until I get the dsl to download that mother-bear of a TE again. Funny though .... it seems the terrain makers have already been hard at work and have been submitting but the process to get something approved, debugged and up and working has slowed down. Alot. May just be my outsider perspective.

[storch]

I In no way meant to to demean either Duke or Warloc both of which I hold with regard.  TheBug is the kind of person which is an asset to any organization.  You may release him and then assign a team clean up after him.  The end result is typically a better functioning unit.  A lot of crap gets abruptly eliminated.

Less crap=better arena. We really do need more maps.  That is part of the crap that needs fixing.

[eddiek]

Nice to see some players actually discussing policing things.
I disagree with storch's statement about being able to change things:  I CAN change myself, so can anyone else.  I cannot change anyone else.  But I do have the power to bring about changes in my behavior, thinking, etc.
The way I see it, folks have adopted too much of a "my way" attitude and forgotten that AH is a community, and there has to be some sort of compromise for the good of everyone as a whole.  I am (was) as guilty of that as anyone else.  I got tired of seeing what I interpreted as MA type behavior.  The only folks who can "force" change are the HTC staff, and when they do make changes they catch hell from everyone for "making" them fly/behave a certain way.  Most folks, from what they post here on the BBS, don't want to make changes in themselves, they want everyone else to change to suit their particular tastes.
Ground rules, behavior rules, code of etiquette, something to regulate and spell out just what is acceptable and not acceptable would be a welcome addition IMO.
As to TheBug not getting "elected", I am puzzled (not really, I think I know the reason) as to the reason HTC did not recognize him as one of the new staff members.  I think personally it would have done TheBug a world of good, maybe not the CT, but he personally would have benefitted from the position.  It's real easy to criticize and place judgment when you are on the outside looking in.......a change of perspective might have helped him see things differently.
Anyways, good luck to the new CT staff members and to all the CT regulars in general.

[Arlo]

Oh, Eddie ... don't get me wrong. I am, by no means, suggesting a code of ettiquette. What I'm suggesting is a scenario-type format for a 24/7 open arena that is supported and maintained by the CT community as a whole. And one that would inspire any player that logs onto the CT server to participate in a different brand of fun that they can't get in the MA.

While I can see the appeal of formality and manners ... to some, I can't see the practicality in enforcing such short of an extreme measure for an extreme act (the "stick", per say - when it comes to blatant offensiveness and disruption in the arena). Whereas ... the "carrot" I'm suggesting is an appeal to join in and be part of an attractive alternative to the MA, as a whole. Something that would keep most of us too busy having fun and being immersed to be our normal bass-tard stunninghunkian selves.

The only drawback is ... that it requires more players participating and wanting to be a part of such (both in prime and off hours). And that's only a drawback because there's not enough willing to migrate in and be a part of the process to change things.

[Redd]

Originally posted by Arlo
Ahhh yes .. hehe ....


I tend to agree with you about what the obvious and actual intended differences are between the MA and the CT. The CT was never designed to be a refuge from poor sportsmanship or gamey tactics.

 

It might not have been intended , but is there anything wrong with having that as a goal ?

From what I have seen , one of the most, if not the most respected regulars  in the CT is Oldman.  Why ? Because he constantly and consistently displays good sportsmanship and a positive attitude to every other player in the arena.

Given this , if everyone values those qualities , what is wrong with the CT becoming a refuge from poor sportsmanship and gamey tactics ?

[Arlo]

Originally posted by Redd
It might not have been intended , but is there anything wrong with having that as a goal ?

From what I have seen , one of the most, if not the most respected regulars  in the CT is Oldman.  Why ? Because he constantly and consistently displays good sportsmanship and a positive attitude to every other player in the arena.

Given this , if everyone values those qualities , what is wrong with the CT becoming a refuge from poor sportsmanship and gamey tactics ?

I never even implied that that's the case. But it's not the design of the CT nor was it ever. Nor can such standards be enforced on any portion of the AH community. Therefore, there is no stick ... short of the club used to eject all out disruptors, as I've mentioned.

That's where a carrot comes in, Redd. The only practical way I see to change the atmosphere of the CT is for the community, as a whole, to become involved in and dedicated to making the CT the nirvana everyone wants. Of course ... it won't actually become that ... but if we can reach the 70% range, we may see more influx.

My suggestion remains planning frequent scenario-style match-ups between groups here on the CT forum complete with force listings for both sides, multiple goals on both sides that appeal to more than one type of play (be it attack, capture, air superiority, etc), actual sign-ups that would help maintain more balance between at least the core groups involved and agreed upon rules as to what constitutes a technical forfeiture should one side or the other breach reasonable pre-arranged boundries (not unlike various team sports ).

[TheBug]

Originally posted by eddiek
As to TheBug not getting "elected", I am puzzled (not really, I think I know the reason) as to the reason HTC did not recognize him as one of the new staff members.  I think personally it would have done TheBug a world of good, maybe not the CT, but he personally would have benefitted from the position.  It's real easy to criticize and place judgment when you are on the outside looking in.......a change of perspective might have helped him see things differently.

How much space am I renting in your head eddiek?  When is my lease up?

Just because you do a crappy job doesn't mean all will,  I've had that perspective before many times in my life.  Judging by the effort level so far put forth, I don't see how I could not end up doing good.  You are very much out of touch.

[VWE]

[Slash27]

Just because you do a crappy job doesn't mean all will, I've had that perspective before many times in my life. Judging by the effort level so far put forth, I don't see how I could not end up doing good. You are very much out of touch.

You have no one but you to blame for not being on the CT staff.

[o0Stream140o]

I am putting my hat in the ring for the next election... hell I might not even get a vote... if I am not part of the solution, I am part of the problem.