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Author Topic: For the 109 fans  (Read 2097 times)

Offline Krusty

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For the 109 fans
« Reply #15 on: October 10, 2004, 06:50:51 PM »
Bah! The -G??? They should work on the -E!!!!!!

Dude, if I had enough money I'd buy a 109E. Seriously.

I hear Bill Gates (or somebody at Microsoft) is paying to restore a DB engine for his 109, and may someday be flying it.
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Offline Crumpp

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« Reply #16 on: October 10, 2004, 07:45:48 PM »
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Just because you have a variable up/down flap option doesn't mean they can deploy the same or deploy at higher speeds.


I would stake the Bf-109's mechanical flap deployment system is just as powerful as any hydraulic, pneumatic, or electrical flap system used in WWII.   More than enough to deploy the flaps at any speed the plane flew.

Ever do any mountain climbing?  Ever make a mechanical advantage?  Same principal as gearing.  With a couple of snaplinks and some knots, one man can lift thousands of pounds, literally.  All by himself.

Crumpp
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Offline Cobra412

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« Reply #17 on: October 10, 2004, 08:17:09 PM »
Just becuase it has mechanical, hydraulic, pneumatic or electrical flaps doesn't mean they can deploy at any speed.  You have to look at what pressures are being placed on the surface and what the surface is made out of.  You deploy them at to fast of a speed and your going to disenegrate the surface.  

Even in todays day and age modern fighters surfaces will rip apart if deployed at to fast of a speed.  Just as an example the F-15s flaps are a 2 way deployment, up or down.  They also have a safety system built in to keep from destroying the flap surface and/or the hydrualic actuators that deploy them.  They will not deploy over 230kts and if left in the down position while going through that speed the will automatically retract.  This is due to a flap airspeed monitoring switch.  When it senses speeds above 230kts it automatically unlocks the control valve in the actuator.  The fluids then bypass so that air pressure will force the flaps to the up position.

Simply saying the 109 should be able to deploy flaps at any speed is ridiculous.  Just because it has manual gearing doesn't mean it can deploy at any speed.
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storch

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For the 109 fans
« Reply #18 on: October 10, 2004, 09:09:17 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Cobra412
Just becuase it has mechanical, hydraulic, pneumatic or electrical flaps doesn't mean they can deploy at any speed.  You have to look at what pressures are being placed on the surface and what the surface is made out of.  You deploy them at to fast of a speed and your going to disenegrate the surface.  

Even in todays day and age modern fighters surfaces will rip apart if deployed at to fast of a speed.  Just as an example the F-15s flaps are a 2 way deployment, up or down.  They also have a safety system built in to keep from destroying the flap surface and/or the hydrualic actuators that deploy them.  They will not deploy over 230kts and if left in the down position while going through that speed the will automatically retract.  This is due to a flap airspeed monitoring switch.  When it senses speeds above 230kts it automatically unlocks the control valve in the actuator.  The fluids then bypass so that air pressure will force the flaps to the up position.

Simply saying the 109 should be able to deploy flaps at any speed is ridiculous.  Just because it has manual gearing doesn't mean it can deploy at any speed.


I have read no instances of 109s compressing in a dive.  The 109s whole horizontal stab could be adjusted, this was the elevator trim thus allowing you considerably more than the 40-50lbs of pressure to be applied to the elevators.  The 109 had wonderful down elevator force which is totally lacking in AH.  There is no reasonable explaination for HTCs erroneous modelling of all LW aircraft in this game.  There is no such thing as flaps auto retracting in any WWII aircraft. You can deploy landing gear BEFORE deploying flaps on a 109.
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Offline Crumpp

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« Reply #19 on: October 10, 2004, 10:03:59 PM »
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I have read no instances of 109s compressing in a dive.


109's did not compress.  They did experience high stick forces and stability problems in a high speed dive.  The vertical stabilizer was extended to 110 cm and that eliminated the stability issue.  This why you see the "tall tails" on the Bf-109G6 and later varients.

 

Quote
Simply saying the 109 should be able to deploy flaps at any speed is ridiculous. Just because it has manual gearing doesn't mean it can deploy at any speed.


Yes it is ridiculus.  

However this is what I wrote.

Quote
I would stake the Bf-109's mechanical flap deployment system is just as powerful as any hydraulic, pneumatic, or electrical flap system used in WWII.


And is a very true statement.  You focused on the last sentence and took it out of context as a stand alone concept.  

Let me clarify it for you.  The 109's flaps could deploy at any speeds any other fighter in WWII could deploy flaps.  There use as combat flaps is well documented and did improve the turn of the 109.

Crumpp
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Offline Guppy35

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« Reply #20 on: October 10, 2004, 11:08:02 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Krusty
Bah! The -G??? They should work on the -E!!!!!!

Dude, if I had enough money I'd buy a 109E. Seriously.

I hear Bill Gates (or somebody at Microsoft) is paying to restore a DB engine for his 109, and may someday be flying it.


Krusty, there is a flying Emil in Canada.  There are at least two or three that are being restored to flight and they just pulled one almost completly intact from a Russian lake recently.  One, a B of B vet was found intact in India where it had been since sent there after the war to a tech school.  It's now in England for restoration to flight as well

There will probably be more E's flying then anything else in the near future

Paul Allen of Microsoft fame has built an incredible collection of WW2 aircraft including a Spit V, 190A5, P51, B17E etc.  I don't think he has a 109 yet, but no doubt he will.  His restoration team's work is incredible.  See the latest Air & Space magazine for details

Link to Ed Russel's 109E in Canada

http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/attachment.php?attachmentid=36327&stc=1

DanSlack
« Last Edit: October 10, 2004, 11:10:41 PM by Guppy35 »
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Offline Pongo

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« Reply #21 on: October 10, 2004, 11:24:59 PM »
Really GH...ok fly that sucker!
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Offline Krusty

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« Reply #22 on: October 10, 2004, 11:53:30 PM »
Guppy: Thanks for the heads-up!! Last I heard the only ones flying were the horribly butt-ugly (or should I say nose-ugly?) Spanish post-war variants, as seen in many movies.
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Offline GRUNHERZ

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« Reply #23 on: October 10, 2004, 11:54:34 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Krusty
Bah! The -G??? They should work on the -E!!!!!!

Dude, if I had enough money I'd buy a 109E. Seriously.

I hear Bill Gates (or somebody at Microsoft) is paying to restore a DB engine for his 109, and may someday be flying it.


Why do you want a 109E? Its the ugliest POS 109 ever.

Bf109 F G and K are the real 109s..  :p
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Offline Guppy35

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« Reply #24 on: October 11, 2004, 01:14:45 AM »
I'm with Krusty as an Emil fan.  Something about them, in particular the E-7 looks right to me

Dan/Slack
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Offline OntosMk1

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« Reply #25 on: October 11, 2004, 01:51:11 AM »
:eek:  WoW!! :eek:
Simply beautiful  :D
Although yesterday we had a 51D fly over. And I tell ya, there isnt ANYTHING in the world that sounds like a 51 :D :aok  I could hear one and not even have to look up to tell ya what it was...
w00t!!! I say, w00t!!
Thanks for the links :aok
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TIGER, tiger, burning bright  
In the forests of the night,  
What immortal hand or eye  
Could frame thy fearful symmetry?

Offline GRUNHERZ

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« Reply #26 on: October 11, 2004, 02:54:04 AM »
You 109E people are sick... :(
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Offline Guppy35

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« Reply #27 on: October 11, 2004, 03:23:21 AM »
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
You 109E people are sick... :(


Well I coulda told ya that...... :)

Dan/Slack
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Offline Wolfala

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« Reply #28 on: October 11, 2004, 06:26:49 AM »
Does it have DB powerplant or is it still using the Merlin strapon?
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the best cure for "wife ack" is to deploy chaff:    $...$$....$....$$$.....$ .....$$$.....$ ....$$

Offline wasq

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« Reply #29 on: October 11, 2004, 06:30:44 AM »
From the forum thread mentioned in the first post:
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The plane use an original DB 605 A that was restorated from up to 20 diffrent DB 605 engines.
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