Author Topic: News...  (Read 3728 times)

Offline Pongo

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« Reply #60 on: October 12, 2004, 02:07:52 PM »
It should just be accepted that bullet traps and other issues of the T34s armour are irrelivent vs the Pak 40s and better. It isnt well armoured and the Panzer IV can kill it frontaly with out such assistance.
vs the Panther such discussions are relevent. As it is invulnerable frotally to most allied anti tank guns. So you need to talk about shot traps etc. By 1944, such discusions concerning the T34 series are pretty irrelivent unless your in a 75mm Sherman or a 50mm Panzer III or a 57mm Cromwell or another T34-76. Any properly armed 1944 tank will take out any normal armoured version of the T34 quite easily.
Panthers will kill them at 3km.

Offline Urchin

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« Reply #61 on: October 12, 2004, 02:45:12 PM »
I really would like to see the ground war fleshed out a little more.  For instance, Panzer III, Sherman (early and late models), the KV (I think) series Russian tanks, the British tanks (don't know much about them.. Matilda and some lighter model fought the Panzer III and IV in North Africa), maybe a couple tank destroyer models (the StuG III comes to mind).  

On the other hand... I'd like to see the early war air stuff fleshed out too, so I guess I want my cake and eat it too :).

Offline Fruda

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« Reply #62 on: October 12, 2004, 02:48:54 PM »
The Churchill Mk. IV was a very good British tank. I'd really like to see it in AHII.

Offline Tilt

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« Reply #63 on: October 12, 2004, 03:29:25 PM »


Seems we have the welded turret.........
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Offline Karnak

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« Reply #64 on: October 12, 2004, 03:43:18 PM »
I don't think it matters if it is cast or welded.  I think AH models armor based on thickness, angle of impact of the shell and the energy of the shell.
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Offline GRUNHERZ

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« Reply #65 on: October 12, 2004, 04:26:14 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Pongo
It should just be accepted that bullet traps and other issues of the T34s armour are irrelivent vs the Pak 40s and better. It isnt well armoured and the Panzer IV can kill it frontaly with out such assistance.
vs the Panther such discussions are relevent. As it is invulnerable frotally to most allied anti tank guns. So you need to talk about shot traps etc. By 1944, such discusions concerning the T34 series are pretty irrelivent unless your in a 75mm Sherman or a 50mm Panzer III or a 57mm Cromwell or another T34-76. Any properly armed 1944 tank will take out any normal armoured version of the T34 quite easily.
Panthers will kill them at 3km.


I think in AH2 with our curious bounce hit model that has bounces from vertical 80mm plate at 40yards you will have 75/L48 AP rounds bouncing off that sloped T34  glacis like mad..

:(

Oh and Tilt I think thats actually a cast turret.

Offline Sp4de

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« Reply #66 on: October 12, 2004, 05:29:12 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Pyro
I'm quite certain that we'll do a T-34/85, just not in this version.  Probably roll that out at the same time as the Panther.


PANTHER!! YOU CAN TELL US WE GET A PANTHER BUT NOT THE RELEASE DATE OF 2.01 !!!:(

Offline Arlo

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« Reply #67 on: October 12, 2004, 05:38:01 PM »
Geeze ... the boner you guys have for the Panther and all. Why not just cut to the chase and demand that uberschturmhumptydoodle Mk 69? After all ... modeling stuff to fill in country gaps for historical and scenario match-ups don't mean squat when it comes to better, faster, tougher, harder shooting toys for the MA. ;)

Offline Karnak

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« Reply #68 on: October 12, 2004, 05:41:42 PM »
It's been a very slow day at work so I've been browsing T-34 data on the internet.

It seems to me that we're probably underselling the gun on the T-34/76.  The difference in the way German and Russian tests measure penetration makes the paper numbers of the 76.2mm F-34 1942 L/41.2 seem less than they were when compared to the paper numbers of the German guns.

While I know Russian sources can be, um, biased, here is a quote from V. A. Malyshev in 1943:

"Enemy tanks opened fire on ours at distances of up to 1,500 metres, while our 76mm tank guns could destroy "Tigers" and "Panthers" at distances of only 500-600 metres.  Imagine the enemy has a kilometer and a half in his hands, while we have only half a kilometer.  A more powerful gun needs to be put in the T-34 quickly."


Looking at the data is seems that the T-34/76 (43) is not so different from a T-34/76 in 1941 or 1942 and so is quite usable in scenarios for those years.  In 1941 and 1942 it would be a very formidable tank, but to reflect this we need a Panzer IV D.

Against the Panzer IV H the T-34/76 will be at a disadvantage, but less so, I think, than the M4A3 (75mm) Sherman.  The front armor is only 47mm thick, but it is at an impressive 60° angle from vertical, which gives a straight on impact angle of only 30°. Any angle added from a shot not coming from directly ahead of the tank only adds to this. This will only be of marginal use against the the powerful 75mm KwK 40 L/48 gun on the Panzer IV H, it will be significantly better against future tanks from earlier periods or the 75mm M3 L/40 on the M4A3 Sherman.

The slope of the rear armor and the thicker rear hull and rear turret armor will probably make the T-34/76 indisquishable from the Tiger I when looked at from an M8's perspective.  The M8 relies on punching out the Panzer IV H's turret from the rear and then repeated blows to the rear and side hull to kill it.  It is likely that these hits will have no effect on the T-34/76.

The 20mm of deck armor will probably make the T-34/76 unkillable by aircraft guns other than the Il-2's 23mm and Hurrican Mk IID's 40mm cannons.  Future additions such as the Ju-87G and Hs129 will also be capable of knocking it out with guns.  All American aircraft however will rely on bombs and rockets.  All current German and Japanese aircraft will need to rely on bombs, only the Hs129, Ju87G and Ki-102 really offering a chance of changing that.

As to the particular model we're getting, I'd say it is a T-34/76D with a welded turret and no commander's cupola.  There seem to have been only 100 T-34/76Fs with the cast turret and no commander's cuppola produced before all production shifted to the T-34/85.

Here's a quick rundown on T-34/76 variants:
T-34/76A, Model 40: First models had 2 man turret that didn't provide vision devices or a cupola for the commander. Had L/30.3 Model 1938 tank gun mounted in a mount shaped like a pigs head. The first 115 vehicles had rear MGs installed. Had solid rubber tires around disc wheels.
T-34/76B, Model 41: Had rolled plate turret with a L/40 gun installed in an angular gun cradle. Late models had all steel wheels and a cast turret. 28 tons.
T-34/76C, Model 42: Larger turret with 2 roof hatches. Had improved tracks, vision, and armor for the hull MG. 30 tons. Driver had protecting visor for window. Hull MG is mounted in ball mantlet.
T-34/76D: Hexagonal turret and wider mantlet, plus external jettisonable fuel tanks. Thicker armor up to 70 mm. 30.9 tons. Two hatch covers in top of turret, that when open, led to it being nicknamed "Mickey Mouse" by German soldiers.
T-34/76E: Cupola added to turret and all welded construction.
T-34/76F: Cast turret with no cupola, 5 speed gear. Only 100 built as production switched to T-34/85.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2004, 05:48:19 PM by Karnak »
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Offline Arlo

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« Reply #69 on: October 12, 2004, 05:50:27 PM »
Sherman .. then Panzer IV D. I can live with that. Everyone in the MA can be distracted by playing with the T-34 for awhile.

Offline Karnak

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« Reply #70 on: October 12, 2004, 05:57:21 PM »
Arlo,

I, for one, am really looking forward to playing with the T-34/76.  While true that I would prefer a T-34/85, I really like the T-34/76 too.

Panthers are super tanks by WWII standards.  I'm sure we'll see it sometime, but I'd like to see the M4A3 (75mm) Sherman and Panzer IV D next.  After those then maybe a Panther V G, T-34/85, M4A3 (76mm) Sherman or Sherman Firefly Vc.  First lets get the core combat tanks of WWII first though.

Frankly I'd rather see a Panther V A or Panther V D when it is added rather than the ultimate Panther V G.  The V A or V D would be far more useful for scenarios than the V G.



M4A3 (75mm) Sherman and Panzer IV D please.:D
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Offline Arlo

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« Reply #71 on: October 12, 2004, 06:05:38 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Karnak
Arlo,

I, for one, am really looking forward to playing with the T-34/76.  While true that I would prefer a T-34/85, I really like the T-34/76 too.

(snip)

M4A3 (75mm) Sherman and Panzer IV D please.:D


Oh ... I never said I wouldn't be hopping in it and giving it a spin, myself. I'm just saying that it should at least provide a temporary distraction for the "model more uber next and more uber than that next and even more uberer than that next" crowd. That's not the schedule that appeals to me. I'm thinking you and I are on the same relative wavelength when it comes to a logical progression of addition. :)

Offline Karnak

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« Reply #72 on: October 12, 2004, 06:17:12 PM »
Well, I think the T-34/76 fits in nicely with the "model the non-ubėr stuff first" mentality.  Think of the T-34/76 as the Russian equivilent of the M4A3 (75mm) Sherman.  It isn't that good, but it is good enough to see some use in the MA and lots of use in scenarios.

I think people who are looking for the next ubėrtank will jump in it and then right back into the Panzer IV H when they find that the T-34 only really offers a higher top speed at the cost of being very vulnerable to the Panzer IV H.
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Offline Mitsu

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« Reply #73 on: October 12, 2004, 06:17:47 PM »
B-24 interior is completed?
is new version really close to release?

Offline Karnak

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« Reply #74 on: October 12, 2004, 06:49:07 PM »
A Panzer IV H firing at a T-34/76's front with a horizontal angle of 20° has approximately 94mm of armor to pierce if I've done my calculation correctly.

The 75mm KwK 40 L/48 has about the following chances to penetrate with the listed ammo:

PnGr 40 has about a 25% chance to penetrate at 1,000m
PnGr 39 has about a 25% chance to penetrate at 500m
APCBC has about a 25% chance to penetrate at 500m


Does anybody know what kind of AP ammo the Panzer IV H is using in AH?
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