Author Topic: drive backup/mirror programs (Read 306 times)

boxboy28 · « **on:** October 13, 2004, 09:57:20 AM »

Ok my dad hired me on to the family bussiness and part of my duties are taking care of the I.T. things!

What i need is a program that will back up his "Quickbooks" st least ever other day! ~ But what ild like to do is create a mirror or clone of his drive ever friday so if thing go south on the C drive i can always boot from the other disk!

Now the main system he has has 2 hard drives. One is a 100 G maxtor and the other is a 120 G WD .

Hes got Norton system works with "Ghost" 2004 and some other program called "LifeGuard" thats supposed to beable to back up program data and stuff.

I did a clone Image of the C drive to the other last night but it seems that it didnt copy all the data from on to the other
the C drive says it has like 8.06 Gigs used and the @nd drive is saying like 8.05 G used. Is this normal?

Whats the best way to clone this thing completely every week or more often automatically? or do i have to do it manually ?

Kev367th · « **Reply #1 on:** October 13, 2004, 01:08:58 PM »

Backing up 'in use' files are always a problem.

Best way is to use to reboot system using a ghost boot disk and image from DOS.
There are backup programs that will do 'in use' files but they tend to be expensive.
Be aware images are only valid in Windows for a set period (will dig it up from office tomorrow) after which they will come up as invalid earlier versions. This is due to Windows changing the computers unique security ID key at preset intervals after which an image restore is no longer in synch with the current key.
Will dig out info from my laptop at office and update tomorrow.

Best way if the system supports it would be an IDE RAID 1 setup (each disk is a mirror/duplicate of the other). You can then replace the failed disk and recreate the RAID 1 array. Or if SCSI a RAID 1 or RAID 5 setup.
I/we use RAID 5 at our office, had a disk fail few weeks ago, just replaced it and rebuilt the array on the fly without any downtime.

Post the system specs, I may be able to come up with another solution.

RAID level explantion - http://www.recoverdata.com/raidfaq.htm

llama · « **Reply #2 on:** October 13, 2004, 02:03:12 PM »

If all you are looking to do is copy the quickbooks file to another drive every day at a set time, there are dozens of backup products that do this. Heck, you can write a DOS batch file and tie it into Windows Scheduler, or use the free WinZip command line add-on, and use WinZip.

Just go to Download.com and start checking out some of the backup products there.

As for mirroring one drive to another automatically, what you want is a RAID controller. Buy one from Promise (that's the brand); it is a PCI card with two IDE connectors. Set it to mirror the drives. Then if one dies one day, just hook up the good one to the motherboard's IDE controller, and you're back in business. I have many client's set up this way, and it has saved the day three times in the past 5 years. The Promise cards are all automatic and hardware-based, and very VERY reliable.

As for copying whole drives, I still swear by GHost 2003. Let it make a DOS boot disk and back up/copy the drive that way. It is fair to say that I use Ghost 5 times a week AT LEAST, and it is a Godsend. By booting to DOS to do this, you'll make sure you get ALL the "in use" Windows files.

Now being a software reviewer for a living, Symantec just sent me an eval version of Ghost 7, which uses recently acquired technology from Drive Image to do Ghost backups from within Windows. I haven't tried it out yet, but as Mr. Scott said in Star Trek, "The more the complicate the plumbing, the easier it is to get a clog." Or something like that...

-Llama

Kev367th · « **Reply #3 on:** October 13, 2004, 02:21:18 PM »

Thought about batch files etc LLama, but he said he wanted to image the whole drive.
Free/Shareware backup progs cannot backup 'in use' files from within windows.

Only problem with Ghost 2003 is the need to boot to DOS for a complete image.
We use a different backup solution that has as an option, an agent to backup 'in use files' But as I said this gets expensive for small businesses/home users. Then again we can't afford the downtime needed to image 100'sGB worth of data on some servers.
I try to do an image every month, just as a belt and braces scenario. But I had to change a registry setting to turn off the automatic Windows 'key' change to prevent the image being invalid after a certain time.

Why leave the mirror drive unconnected in a RAID 1? In fact without the drive connected to the controller you have no RAID 1! Drives must be physically connected and assigned to the array for ANY RAID level to work correctly. Even hotspares need to be physically attached and powered up to function correctly.

Promise are good and reliable IDE RAID, was hoping he may already have a motherboard with an onboard Promise RAID controller.

Just got a thing from Symantec regarding their new "Livestate" software. Any idea if supports backup of online Oracle databases? No info on their website.

boxboy28 · « **Reply #4 on:** October 14, 2004, 09:53:29 AM »

the mobo is a ASUS P4PE
with a P4 3.06 HT chip.
1024 megs DDR 2700
1 - 100 g maxtor ide HD
1 - 120 g WD ide HD
XP pro
SB audigy platinum
ATI 9700 pro

pretty sure the mobo had the promise sata raid controller but i dont know if it would work withthe IDE drives.

if so how would i go about setting up a raid 1?

Kev367th · « **Reply #5 on:** October 14, 2004, 10:45:59 AM »

Looks like your motherboard has no onboard RAID.
http://usa.asus.com/prog/spec.asp?m=P4PE2-X&langs=09

If I am wrong about your board there are adapters available to convert IDE drives to SATA. http://www.highpoint-tech.com/USA/storage%2Baccessories.htm. In this case goto
Basic setup for RAID further down.

For IDE RAID you will need a PCI Promise RAID controller (cheap).

For SATA RAID you will need 2 same size drives and a SATA RAID card, cheap enough nowadays and faster than IDE.

Personally if your Dad will go along with it, I would get a SATA PCI RAID controller and 2 new same size, same model SATA drives

Basic setup for RAID
You set both drives as master (doesn't apply to SATA)
Hook 1 drive to each channel
During boot enter the RAID configuration screen
Select the drives and add them to the RAID 1 array.
Check manual for detailed instructions!!!!

NB - Using your current drives will give you a total of 100Gb only usable space. You will 'lose' the extra 20Gb from the WD drive. Why only 100Gb? As each drive is in effect a copy of the other the total available storage space is the size of the smallest drive in the array.

NB - Depending on the controller (check manual) you can either do this with no loss of data on the original c: drive, or you will need to restore the data after the raid has been configured.

NB - Before swapping the drives to the RAID controller install the drivers for the RAID card in Windows XP/2000 or you will get a Blue Screen Of Death on boot.

If you used 2 new SATA drives you could leave one of the IDE drives in and setup Windows Backup to backup his 'Quickbooks' data files on a daily basis to the IDE drive.

Total solution provides -
1) A RAID 1 SATA setup providing safeguard against disk failure.
2) An IDE drive where data only can be backed up on a regular basis.

Belt and braces!!

One caveat - If you are using Windows 2000 Server you can setup software RAID.

boxboy28 · « **Reply #6 on:** October 14, 2004, 10:59:06 AM »

Hey Kev thanks for all your help and info but thats the wrong board. (newer different version) his is the older original P4PE look here http://usa.asus.com/prog/spec.asp?m=P4PE&langs=09

states:
Promise controller supports one ATA133 port and two Serial ATA ports

RAID 0 supported by single Parallel ATA with single or dual Serial ATA connections,or dual Serial ATA connections alone.
RAID 1 supported by single Parallel ATA with single Serial ATA connection or dual Serial ATA connections alone.

and using the 2 drives he has 100g is more than he even needs now

Kev367th · « **Reply #7 on:** October 14, 2004, 11:38:34 AM »

OK then you could use the IDE to SATA adaptor then on the larger (120Gb) drive.

Hoping your OS is on the smaller 100Gb drive, and nothing is on the 120Gb that you need to keep. Else copy stuff to be kept to the 100Gb drive.

Read the RAID chapter in the on-line manual. (Starts page 5-24)
You should be able to leave the OS drive as an IDE on the PRI_RAID1 connector. Use an adaptor on the 120Gb to turn it into SATA and put it on either of the SATA connectors.

1) Start PC go into BIOS and enable the RAID controller.
2) Boot into Windows
3) Install the RAID drivers.
4) Delete all information and partitions from the 120Gb drive so it is in effect a 'new' drive.
5) Create emergency repair floppy disk.
6) Shutdown.
7) Attach adaptor to 120Gb drive and plug the cable onto one of the SATA headers on the motherboard (follow instructions for adaptor on master/slave setting for IDE drive)
8) Start PC
9) Go into BIOS RAID configuration.
10) Use the section on using existing drive with data to create mirror (Page 5-29 in the on-line manual) http://www.asus.com/pub/ASUS/mb/sock478/p4pe/e1110_p4pe.pdf . Ignore part 11 of the on-line manual guide, drivers MUST be installed PRIOR to RAID creation in this case. Done in step 3 here.
11) After mirror has been created and when prompted - reboot.

Poss problem (remote as drivers are installed in (3))-
On final reboot you get inaccessible boot device blue screen
Use emergency repair floppy disk.

If one of the drives 'dies' you still have a functioning system as the other drive is a copy. You can replace the dead drive and carry out step 10 only, when time permits. Replacement drive MUST be at least the same size as the drive to be mirrored.

llama · « **Reply #8 on:** October 14, 2004, 02:07:12 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Kev367th

Why leave the mirror drive unconnected in a RAID 1? In fact without the drive connected to the controller you have no RAID 1! Drives must be physically connected and assigned to the array for ANY RAID level to work correctly. Even hotspares need to be physically attached and powered up to function correctly.

Promise are good and reliable IDE RAID, was hoping he may already have a motherboard with an onboard Promise RAID controller.

Sigh. I was hoping it was obvious that when I said to disconnect the working drive from the RAID card, it was so that the server could continue to work WHILE I RUN OUT TO BUY A REPLACEMENT DRIVE OR TWO.

Oh, and then I use Ghost to move the data from the last working drive to one of the two new drives on the RAID card, and then let the RAID card mirror the two drives.

As for shareware backup programs, you need to be clear what is for what. You mentioned something about daily backups of a quickbooks file -- THIS is what a good shareware backup program can do easily. The quickbooks file SHOULD NOT be open at night when no one is using it, for example.

As for using Ghost in DOS mode, I have a strong opinion. What is it you want in life: bulletproof/reliable backups that are slightly inconvienient, or very convienient backups are aren't very reliable all the time? I'll take the former every time.

Now like I said, I do this for a living for more than a dozen small businesses. Here's what I do in real life for a situation similar to yours.

1. The server gets a hardware RAID set for redundancy. The OS is on one partition, and the data is on another partition on the mirrored drive.

2. OS partition gets a ghost backup to CD once every 6 months or so. The base OS hardly ever changes, BTW. It just boots and runs the server daemons. This takes 10 minutes.

3. The Data partion gets a ghost backup every month or so to CD. It takes 15 minutes.

4. A backup software product (any one of several) does a nightly backup of the MOST IMPORTANT FILES, and ONLY the most important data files, at night to some removable media. I've used Zip, JAZZ, USB keychain, USB external drives, (my current favorite) or whatever.

The workstation machines get a ghost backup to CD set two or three times a year. The important data files on these computers (and there aren't that many) simply get backed up to the server's data drive every night via shareware backup program, or even winzip's command line module and batch files, and then THEY get backed up by the server's routines.

See the pattern here? The hard-to-back-up-files-because-they-are-running (that is, the OS system files) get backed up only so often with Ghost, AND they run on a redundant disc array. The valuable data files, which are easy to back up because they are closed at night, can be backed up easily with nearly anything.

I sleep well at night, and so do my clients...

-Llama

Kev367th · « **Reply #9 on:** October 14, 2004, 02:11:32 PM »

Sorry, misunderstood the 'hook the good one' part.