Canadians showed Germany the Blitzkrieg

[GRUNHERZ]

GS stop regurgitating the truth and think for yourself man!!!!

[Furball]

How was it supposed to influence the germans into 'blitzkrieg'?  what was so radical about it? seems it was just a well planned out with training and logistics, then the walking artillery bombardment? i honestly know little about the battle.

If anything, it should be the Cambrai offensive which would influence them into Blitzkrieg.  14 R.F.C. squadrons for air support, no artillery to alarm the enemy, mass tank attack driving through the lines followed by (albeit, not enough) infantry attack caught the Germans completely by suprise.

[Habu]

Originally posted by Curval
Vimy Ridge

The facts.

From that site Curval:

"By late April it looked like the allies might lose the war - except for Vimy Ridge which had been held for a year. On August 8 1918 the Canadians, holding the Ridge, and Australians and some British units, attacked in one massive short bombardment and wiped out nearly all the German guns. As infantry, guns, air all moved into action, the entire force moved more in one day than in the entire war. All the elements of the battle worked: the German line collapsed utterly.

The Hindenburg Line fell and the Canal du Nord was crossed - in Berlin Kaiser Wilhelm was told he had lost, and must now surrender. There were no advances in the fall as details of the surrender were negotiated, led to the 1918 Armistice on November 11, 1918.

The war was over. But a new form of warfare had emerged, mobility-driven, that would be mastered by the defeated Germans and deployed as their 1939 blitzkrieg, or lightning warfare, embodying all they had learned (the hard way) in 1918."

Seems I am not alone in my opinion. What this site does not expound on is the fact that the tactics used in this advance and the main force leading the attacks were the Canadians lead by General Curry.

I am glad we are now moving beyond name calling and into the facts behind the period I was discussing.

[Habu]

Originally posted by Furball
How was it supposed to influence the germans into 'blitzkrieg'?  what was so radical about it? seems it was just a well planned out with training and logistics, then the walking artillery bombardment? i honestly know little about the battle.

If anything, it should be the Cambrai offensive which would influence them into Blitzkrieg.  14 R.F.C. squadrons for air support, no artillery to alarm the enemy, mass tank attack driving through the lines followed by (albeit, not enough) infantry attack caught the Germans completely by suprise.

If the tactics used by the Canadians to cross the Canal du Nord and cause the collapse of the Hinderburg Line were so obvious and simple when why did the Brits lose hundreds of thousands of men achieving nothing for the previous 4 years?

[Habu]

Originally posted by Curval
I assume this report was based on the British action at Taranto.

nope, couldn't have been if this report was before the war.  What report Habu?

Hint written by a very famous American officer who was drummed out of the service by court martial for advocating a seperate air force and better condtions for pilots.

[Furball]

Originally posted by Habu
If the tactics used by the Canadians to cross the Canal du Nord and cause the collapse of the Hinderburg Line were so obvious and simple when why did the Brits lose hundreds of thousands of men achieving nothing for the previous 4 years?

I am asking you what was so radical about it if you read what i said - again.  Because i know little about it.

It was a brilliant accomplishment, but i cannot see the resemblance to Blitzkrieg.  Cambrai seems much more like the german wwii equivalent with the combined air/armoured/infantry assault.

[Pongo]

Originally posted by Habu
No my opinion is the result of looking at these issues for many years and having read many books on the topics and thinking beyond the biased history books that are so often quoted.

I think you are probably an academic who has been taught to reguritate other peoples opinions to the point where you adopt them as your own.

actually I am an ex infanteer in the PPCLI that has read about Vimy and other WW1 battles that helped define my regiment since I was quite a young man.

As has been amply demonstrated by others here. You are off your rocker. You dont understand what blitzkrieg even was much less what inovations the Canadians added to the effort in WW1.

The prinicples that you expound are nothing to do with blitzkrieg other then the concept of concentration of force in the attack. A concept that was written down when Vimy was populated by barbarians and Canada by tribes of hunter gatherers.

[GRUNHERZ]

Originally posted by Habu
From that site Curval:

"By late April it looked like the allies might lose the war - except for Vimy Ridge which had been held for a year. On August 8 1918 the Canadians, holding the Ridge, and Australians and some British units, attacked in one massive short bombardment and wiped out nearly all the German guns. As infantry, guns, air all moved into action, the entire force moved more in one day than in the entire war. All the elements of the battle worked: the German line collapsed utterly.

The Hindenburg Line fell and the Canal du Nord was crossed - in Berlin Kaiser Wilhelm was told he had lost, and must now surrender. There were no advances in the fall as details of the surrender were negotiated, led to the 1918 Armistice on November 11, 1918.

The war was over. But a new form of warfare had emerged, mobility-driven, that would be mastered by the defeated Germans and deployed as their 1939 blitzkrieg, or lightning warfare, embodying all they had learned (the hard way) in 1918."

Seems I am not alone in my opinion. What this site does not expound on is the fact that the tactics used in this advance and the main force leading the attacks were the Canadians lead by General Curry.

I am glad we are now moving beyond name calling and into the facts behind the period I was discussing.

And why does your site say that by april 1918 it looked like the allies would lose the war?  Was it because of dumb germans were stuck in their trenches, unable to to form new ideas like you say only the canadianbs could...

Nope, it was because of the German 1918 spring/summer offensive that used special assault and movemant tactics to defeat the tranches and succeded in driving almost all the way to Paris in 1918..  The only problem was that germans were spent by that point in the war and did not have the men and material to finish the job.

Your theory is wrong Habu, you are wrong on this issue.

[Habu]

Originally posted by Habu
Hint written by a very famous American officer who was drummed out of the service by court martial for advocating a seperate air force and better condtions for pilots.

Ok I will make it easy.

Read about it here
 Billy Mitchell

[Habu]

Originally posted by Pongo
actually I am an ex infanteer in the PPCLI that has read about Vimy and other WW1 battles that helped define my regiment since I was quite a young man.

As has been amply demonstrated by others here. You are off your rocker. You dont understand what blitzkrieg even was much less what inovations the Canadians added to the effort in WW1.

The prinicples that you expound are nothing to do with blitzkrieg other then the concept of concentration of force in the attack. A concept that was written down when Vimy was populated by barbarians and Canada by tribes of hunter gatherers.

Pongo nothing but a bunch of name calling has been amply demonstrated here.

You have done nothing but said I am wrong. If you are so learned in as few words as possible why don't you enlighten us as to what is unique about Blitzkrieg warfare and if the concepts of concentration of force was so well understood since the time of hunter gathers why WW1 degenerated into stalemate and why the Canadians broke the stalemate.

[GRUNHERZ]

Originally posted by Habu
Pongo nothing but a bunch of name calling has been amply demonstrated here.

Now you openly lie.

[Furball]

Taranto proved that attacks against shipping with torpedo's in shallow harbour could be successful even against capital ships, the Japanese were much impressed by this and used the technique to attack pearl harbour.

Billy Mitchell proved capital ships could be sunk by aircraft.

Saying that the Japanese developed the plan for pearl harbour from a 1920's report seems a bit dilusional.

But Japan developed the plan to attack Pearl Harbour from a report published by an American many years before the war.

[Pongo]

Habu.
fighing better then the Brits and French in WW1 doesnt establish any place in valahalla for the Canadian effort.
The germans wrestled for years for a way to regain a war of manuver. The Canadians didnt demonstrate that.  I assume you are talking about actions like the Pursuit to Mons.
Hardly an example of Blitzkrieg.  The Germans were simpley bled dry and had nothing left. Revolt forumlating at home. The people starving.
The canadians in that action didnt implement any doctrine remotely related to blitzkrieg. They simply kept chasing. They didnt move to encircle. I believe the quickly out paced thier arty. They certainly had no integrated fighterbomber capablitiy. They germans collapsed and the Allies kept up the preasure.

The germans STARTED ww1 with that kind of operation in 1914.

[Thrawn]

Originally posted by Habu
If the tactics used by the Canadians to cross the Canal du Nord and cause the collapse of the Hinderburg Line were so obvious and simple when why did the Brits lose hundreds of thousands of men achieving nothing for the previous 4 years?

That one is easy, the British Generals were a bunch of mass murdering morons.

[Habu]

Originally posted by Furball
Taranto proved that attacks against shipping with torpedo's in shallow harbour could be successful even against capital ships, the Japanese were much impressed by this and used the technique to attack pearl harbour.

Billy Mitchell proved capital ships could be sunk by aircraft.

Saying that the Japanese developed the plan for pearl harbour from a 1920's report seems a bit dilusional.

Read the second and third pages there Furball. You will get to the part about Hawai. Always good to read and reflect before fireing off an insulting post.