Author Topic: The 2004 Presidential Debates: A brief history (Read 2202 times)

Nash · « **Reply #15 on:** October 14, 2004, 10:35:45 PM »

Ah, so "we asked people who they'd vote for in a multi-candidate race including Bush and Kerry" the day after the debates conclude and to you this poll represents who won the debates.

Two different things. Bush could lose the debates and win - and visa versa.

Yer poll doesn't add to the discussion about the debates, as it or you would seem to indicate.

Toad · « **Reply #16 on:** October 14, 2004, 10:43:27 PM »

Easy there, big dog.

Read what I wrote, not what you want to argue with me about.

Quote

The "who won" is pretty subjective, I think. Depends on the listener and the listeners preconceptions.

Sure doesn't look like I'm calling a winner on the debates at all. I'm saying people see things subjectively and not everyone sees them the same.

My contribution is: did the debates really change anything.

Bush lost a significant lead after the first one. Might have been the debates. Might have been the end of the "convention bounce" too.

Noticeably, the polls have been essentially tied since the first debate. I would then wonder that, given your assertion and fervent belief that Kerry "won them all", the stalemate hasn't budged despite Kerry "winning two more" after the first.

So... if it was the end of "convention bounce" and we went to stalemate right there....... what difference does it make who won all three or split them any which way?

Because nothing has changed in the polls if you draw the line after the first debate.

MrCoffee · « **Reply #17 on:** October 14, 2004, 10:50:20 PM »

What are the chances that all of the polls are somewhat consistant.

Nash · « **Reply #18 on:** October 14, 2004, 10:50:32 PM »

The debates certainly had an enormous impact. Bush went from double digit leads down to tied in a matter of two weeks.

But you could chalk it up to the receding of Bush's post-convention bounce. It'd be a little weird, but you could.

However, that aint what I'm talking about.

Where was your guy in the debates? Why couldn't he explain himself?

If you want to post polls, post the polls ABOUT the debates. There's no question Bush lost all of them. Post THOSE polls.

Don't sidetrack with polls that are your way of saying "well gee, it doesn't matter." It aint what I was talking about.

Where was Bush?

Toad · « **Reply #19 on:** October 14, 2004, 10:56:50 PM »

They didn't invite Michael Badnarik; that's "my guy".

Oh, so this thread was just about you tooting that "your guy" Kerry won all three and that's all that matters?

Whatever.

Congrats, I guess.

BTW, according to ABC "who won" polls.. the only one that did all three debates

1st Bush 36 Kerry 45
2nd Bush 41 Kerry 44
3rd Bush 41 Kerry 42

All but the first essentially like the "who would you vote for polls"; well within anyone's margin of error.

Nash · « **Reply #20 on:** October 14, 2004, 11:10:53 PM »

You posted a poll as if to say something, but it doesn't say that something.

Totally disconnected. You were trying to suggest something by introducing something irrelevant.

Are you saying that ABC was the only poll that showed Kerry winning all three?

Are you going to tell me right now that Kerry did not win all three?

If so, show me where. If not, perhaps we could move past yer smoke and mirrors show, and you could tell me why it was that the CiC was AWOL.

MrCoffee · « **Reply #21 on:** October 14, 2004, 11:30:28 PM »

Soon America will have to pick and choose a president for the next four years. Whomever he is, he will the the president they deserve. Thats how I see it now, its so close to the election. I too have voiced my opinions but its their president as well. What ever happens, so be it.

Sandman · « **Reply #22 on:** October 14, 2004, 11:33:54 PM »

I dunno... the difference between Bush in debate #1 and Bush in debate #3 was so striking that I wondered if he was on some sort of stimulant.

Toad · « **Reply #23 on:** October 15, 2004, 08:56:36 AM »

How about this then Nash....

Nash: "Kerry was just awesome. He totally won all three debates."

Nov 2: Bush wins.

In despair, Nash refers back to Toad's comment in this thread:

Toad: "The "who won" is pretty subjective, I think. Depends on the listener and the listeners preconceptions.

Beyond that, are debates THE factor in the election? Are they even a major factor?"

Got it yet?

But hey, I know the thought that Kerry roxxors just makes you feel all tingly in your special place. So enjoy it.

Kerry might even win it all and then......... woOOOoooHHHHoooHHH!!!

Enjoy!

Neubob · « **Reply #24 on:** October 15, 2004, 09:02:14 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by MrCoffee
Soon America will have to pick and choose a president for the next four years. Whomever he is, he will the the president they deserve. Thats how I see it now, its so close to the election. I too have voiced my opinions but its their president as well. What ever happens, so be it.

Probably the most logical sentiment at this point.

Neubob · « **Reply #25 on:** October 15, 2004, 09:11:16 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by montag

Let me ask you something then. Are your own goals in voting for a leader different to the agendas that Kerry has been promoting.

I think so.

These are my individual, purely selfish concerns:

Medmal tort reform--including federally-mandated award caps
Strong support for Israel
End, or significant decrease to estate taxes
No significant military spendings cuts
No tax hikes for the 'rich' (unless you feel good about make a legion of tax-attorneys rich while giving little or no added aid to those who need it)
less of a focus on socialized medicine and more concentration on reforming insurance policies
Streamlined, verses bulked-up social programs

Rude · « **Reply #26 on:** October 15, 2004, 09:45:09 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Nash
The debates certainly had an enormous impact. Bush went from double digit leads down to tied in a matter of two weeks.

But you could chalk it up to the receding of Bush's post-convention bounce. It'd be a little weird, but you could.

However, that aint what I'm talking about.

Where was your guy in the debates? Why couldn't he explain himself?

If you want to post polls, post the polls ABOUT the debates. There's no question Bush lost all of them. Post THOSE polls.

Don't sidetrack with polls that are your way of saying "well gee, it doesn't matter." It aint what I was talking about.

Where was Bush?

Bush was there on the recieving end of a liberal armed to the teeth with four years of the Bush record to criticize....kinda hard to fight back against someone who has done nothing but posture all of his life.

Unlike you boy Kerry, Bush is not a polished politician.....what is it about this that you find hard to understand?

Bush leads on the job as was shown immediately after 9-11, not on TV trying to define who he is for the American public like Mr. Kerry.....remember, talk is cheap.

BTW....if you want to score the three debates, Bush clearly lost all three....he will not lose the general election.

AKIron · « **Reply #27 on:** October 15, 2004, 10:00:20 AM »

Knowing what a poor speaker Bush is and the fact that he didn't need the public exposure that Kerry did, I figured from before the debates that Bush had nothing to gain by them and that Kerry would. However, Bush did a pretty good job in revealing just how hollow Kerry is, or maybe Kerry did it to himself.

Who won the debates? Like Bush said when asked who won the debates, "I'll let the voters decide on November 2nd", or something like that.

lazs2 · « **Reply #28 on:** October 15, 2004, 10:15:55 AM »

I guess it boils down to.... from listening to the debates... who would you rather hang out with?

would you like to listen to kerry sell you insurance all day or get in a taxi with him in black tie and tails to see the opening of a new "artist" who makes sculptures from his own feces while drinking champagn and little unidentifieable sandwiches or...

would you rather go to Bush's ranch and saddle up one of his horses and go for a ride on his ranch with him and maybe get off a shot at a coyote or two.... maybe have an outdoor BBQ later on..

nash likes the first choice... most of the Americans here think the second sounds better.. and...

nash can't vote anyway.

lazs

AKIron · « **Reply #29 on:** October 15, 2004, 10:24:20 AM »

hehe, very colorful lazs