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Author Topic: GW Bush  (Read 1329 times)

Offline Toad

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GW Bush
« Reply #30 on: October 14, 2004, 10:37:30 PM »
Nash, to me your generalization is just that. Also, it again reminds me that you don't appear to know as much about US history as you think you do.

We've had some totally bad Presidents. IMO, it's unlikely that Bush will ever be perceived as the worst, given some of his predecessors.

Beyond that, he had some pretty fine moments after 9/11 that are going to mitigate against "worst".

Further, it's WAY to early to really see Iraq in what will become it's true perspective. If it really does jumpstart democracy in the Middle East, Bush will certainly not fit the "worst" category. Au contraire, he'll probably get the "visionary" label like Nixon got for "opening up China".

To sum up....... I don't think it's wise of you to try to write history before it happens. At least don't chisel out the text in stone yet.
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Offline Nash

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« Reply #31 on: October 14, 2004, 10:40:34 PM »
Okay... lemme think...

In four years, Bush has created the worst economy there has been in the 70 years.

In 4 years, Bush has created an entirely unneccessary war that will last for 70 years.

Uhm... yeah.
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Offline anonymous

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« Reply #32 on: October 14, 2004, 10:46:23 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Nash
Historians, a decade from now and decades from now, will characterize Bush's Presidency as the worst.

So bad in fact, that it will be a benchmark unbeaten centuries from now.


i dont know if historians will. they tend to be better analyst and take as many fact into account as possible. like most historian will say that nixon was stupid to get involved in watergate which is true but they will also mention he very good with foreign relations and use him breaking the ice with china as example. im sure there are groups that will forever curse bush as a disaster. just like some still see regan in "the light of their own little reality". also things known only to a few dozen people will be common knolwedge thirty years or more from now. things that will almost certainly cause historians to see things differently than your average political creature living in the moment.
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Offline Toad

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« Reply #33 on: October 14, 2004, 10:48:09 PM »
Two assumptions......... by you......... that certainly aren't proven.

First of all, there is evidence that Bush inherited an economy in recession. There is evidence that it turned around quicker than usual. Further there is always continual disagreement over whether any President really controls the economy given the wide range of influences and factors beyond his control.

Second, there you go again writing the future history of Iraq. It's pretty ludicrous to see you do it because I know you're smarter than that.

However, I'm used to it; it's been your way of debate/argument since your return.

In short, those two things are just unproven BS assumptions on your part.
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Offline anonymous

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« Reply #34 on: October 14, 2004, 10:48:22 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Nash
Okay... lemme think...

In four years, Bush has created the worst economy there has been in the 70 years.

In 4 years, Bush has created an entirely unneccessary war that will last for 70 years.

Uhm... yeah.


were do you get a seventy year war from? what makes you think it will be seventy years? surely when us is gone from iraq and they are sovereign nation recognized by un in less than ten years with un overseeing some election if other country attack iraq for no reason the un will step in before fifty years has gone by.
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Offline AKIron

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« Reply #35 on: October 14, 2004, 10:49:03 PM »
War in the middle east has been going on for much longer than a mere 70 years Nash. Hey, Bush may finally win "The Crusade".
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Offline anonymous

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« Reply #36 on: October 14, 2004, 10:50:19 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Toad
Two assumptions......... by you......... that certainly aren't proven.

First of all, there is evidence that Bush inherited an economy in recession. There is evidence that it turned around quicker than usual. Further there is always continual disagreement over whether Presidents really control the economy given the wide range of influences and factors beyond his control.

Second, there you go again writing the future history of Iraq. It's pretty ludicrous to see you do it because I know you're smarter than that.

However, I'm used to it; it's been your way of debate/argument since your return.

In short, those two things are just unproven BS assumptions on your part.


he just plays fast and loose with serious terms. he says "war" he either dont understand that almost no nation in existence today could afford to wage war for fifty years straight. if he meant the insurgency i think hes wrong and doesnt understand how important local support is to staying power of insurgency.
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Offline Toad

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« Reply #37 on: October 14, 2004, 10:50:52 PM »
It's just Nash trying to get you to agree to his definition of the argument. It makes debate a whole lot easier if your opponent falls into the trap and swallows your fallacies whole.
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Offline anonymous

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« Reply #38 on: October 14, 2004, 10:52:21 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by AKIron
War in the middle east has been going on for much longer than a mere 70 years Nash. Hey, Bush may finally win "The Crusade".


id say there hasnt been long period of total peace in middle east for longer than seventy years. but no two nations have been at war for seventy years consistently.
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Offline NUKE

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« Reply #39 on: October 14, 2004, 10:52:27 PM »
Nash is a good guy and he has some interesting insights imo. I just wish he would use a little more logic and a little less emotion when trying to argue a point.
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Offline Nash

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« Reply #40 on: October 14, 2004, 10:54:16 PM »
Nuke - I win this debate and you lose.
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Offline anonymous

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« Reply #41 on: October 14, 2004, 10:55:02 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by NUKE
Nash is a good guy and he has some interesting insights imo. I just wish he would use a little more logic and a little less emotion when trying to argue a point.


whos arguing? discussion not argument and emotion means zilch in discussion. arguing is bad term. its not long anyone is going to lose sleep at night because nash thinks current cic is a failure. just like no guy from france is going to actually be upset because they see some american say he doesnt like frances stance on iraq.
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Offline NUKE

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« Reply #42 on: October 14, 2004, 10:56:01 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Nash
Nuke - I win this debate and you lose.


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Offline anonymous

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« Reply #43 on: October 14, 2004, 10:56:07 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Nash
Nuke - I win this debate and you lose.


thats a bold statement considering the extent to which you may have to answer for a poor prediction typed here twenty years from now. :rolleyes:
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Offline Toad

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« Reply #44 on: October 14, 2004, 10:58:05 PM »
I think Nash is just bored. He hasn't gone on his Friday Night Fishing trip in quite a while.
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If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!
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