Author Topic: P39 time!  (Read 1340 times)

Offline MOSQ

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P39 time!
« Reply #30 on: October 16, 2004, 12:15:55 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Guppy35
Skip the P63 as it did not see combat


The P-63 was used extensively in the Soviet Air Force. They had 2,400 of them! I find it hard to believe they weren't in combat.

I'd love to see it in AHII in SAF markings.

If you're a P-39 fan, you should read Conversations with N. G. Golodnikov. http://airforce.users.ru/lend-lease/english/articles/golodnikov/part3.htm

Also this article about the SAF #1 ace, Aleksandr Pokryshkin.


http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/mig3/pokryshkin.html
« Last Edit: October 16, 2004, 12:22:57 PM by MOSQ »

Offline 1K3

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P39 time!
« Reply #31 on: October 16, 2004, 12:22:46 PM »
When did VVS recieve P-39/63 Cobra fighters? What year did VVS decomission the cobra fighters?

Offline TexMurphy

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P39 time!
« Reply #32 on: October 16, 2004, 01:06:50 PM »
We do need more russian planes.

I would rather see Mig-3, Yak-3, Yak-7, LaGG-3 (even though that one might be a baaad idea for a online game;) ) and russian bombers (PE-2, PE-8, TU-2). BUT P-39 is a very usefull plane for the game as it comes in russian and us shapes.

What Id like to see also is to get the skinners working on Russian skins for the P-40E, Hurricane and Boston.

Tex

Offline United

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P39 time!
« Reply #33 on: October 16, 2004, 01:11:32 PM »
Tex, go back and look in the Custom Sounds and Skins forum.  There are several Soviet P-40s and Greebo is doing several Soviet Bostons and A20s.

Offline TexMurphy

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P39 time!
« Reply #34 on: October 16, 2004, 01:15:04 PM »
Have they been added to the game yet?

Last time I checked I didnt see em in game.

Tex

Offline Guppy35

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P39 time!
« Reply #35 on: October 16, 2004, 01:21:16 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by MOSQ
The P-63 was used extensively in the Soviet Air Force. They had 2,400 of them! I find it hard to believe they weren't in combat.


From "Bells of the Kremlin"

"Since the Airacobra was such a success in Russia, naturally the Soviets would be a major recipient of its bigger brother, the P-63. They were sent 2456 Kingcobras, flown across the Al-Sib ferry route, of which 2421 actually arrived, including both major variants, the P-63A and P-63C. However, contrary to Dorr and other western authors, it did not prove to be a potent tank-buster. It never got a chance. Only in September 1944 did the first P-63 begin it's long journey across two continents, from Buffalo, New York to Russia. By May 1945 there were only 51 P-63As in service, assigned to PVO air defense regiments, which by that stage of the war had little real chance of combat. Consequently, the P-63 never got to show its stuff against either a panzer or a "messer". However, the P-63 did see brief combat in Russian service. Soviet units continued reequipping after the German surrender. Many P-63s went to Soviet units assigned to the Far East and Transbaikal Fronts preparing for war against Japan. The 12th Air Army of the Trasnbaikal Front equipped its 245 IAD, consisting of the 940 and 781 IAPS. This Air Army was reinforced after the German surrender by the transfer from the west of the 190 IAD which included the 17 IAP and 21 IAP, both of which replaced their P-39Q and La-5 fighters with the Kingcobra. One of the pilots of the 17 IAP was Captain Viacheslav Sirotin, HSU, a 21 victory ace. On August 15, he and his wingman, Junior Lieutenant Miroshnichenko caught 2 Japanese fighters (either Ki-27 or Ki-43, the records are unclear), and shot down one of them. This was the Kingcobra's only aerial victory - ever."


So you have exactly one kill to a Kingcobra vs the Japanese and no real combat against the Luftwaffe.

I'm a fan of the KingCobra, don't misunderstand :).  I grew up watching a racing KingCobra fly over my house often from the local airport.

Just in terms of AH, the King would be down the list where the P39 makes much more sense.

Profile I did of a Russian Kingcobra a while back

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Offline United

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P39 time!
« Reply #36 on: October 16, 2004, 01:29:33 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by TexMurphy
Have they been added to the game yet?

Last time I checked I didnt see em in game.

Tex

They havent been added, but they have been submitted.

Great read Guppy!

Offline Kirin

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P39 time!
« Reply #37 on: October 16, 2004, 01:49:24 PM »
Well - unless we get the historical scenario along with it I don't think the P39 will get used much...

But I'd like to see it - especially since it is butt-ugly!!! ;)
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Offline Guppy35

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P39 time!
« Reply #38 on: October 16, 2004, 02:00:29 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Kirin
Well - unless we get the historical scenario along with it I don't think the P39 will get used much...

But I'd like to see it - especially since it is butt-ugly!!! ;)


I think because so much of the AH war is fought at lower levels, that the 39 would surprise people.  It was a Dog at altitude, but racing around down low it performed well.

That's where the Russians found their success with it and the USAAF 350th FG flying 39s in the Med also did find against the 109s and 190s down low when they ran into them.

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Offline GRUNHERZ

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P39 time!
« Reply #39 on: October 16, 2004, 02:12:35 PM »
Woohhooo post #39..  :)

Offline daddog

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P39 time!
« Reply #40 on: October 16, 2004, 03:25:26 PM »
Events would love to see the P-39. :)

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Offline Panzzer

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P39 time!
« Reply #41 on: October 16, 2004, 06:45:51 PM »
I remember reading that some of the Russian test pilots had some problems with the P63. Problems in handling or stalls or something like that... I read this probably from Red Stars 4 (Lend-Lease Aircraft in Russia), by Geust and Petrov, published by Apali,  ISBN: 952-5026-23-X.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2004, 04:42:47 AM by Panzzer »
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Offline llama

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P39 time!
« Reply #42 on: October 17, 2004, 01:42:58 AM »
*I* would give my left nut for a P-39.

(Of course, I would give my right nut to get my left nut back...)

Those of you at the 99 Palm Spring's con will remember why. ;-)

-Llama

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Offline Canaris

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P39 time!
« Reply #43 on: October 17, 2004, 07:57:23 AM »
I wouldn't mind a p39, we need a lot more early war aircraft compared to late war.


Canaris

Offline eskimo2

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P39 time!
« Reply #44 on: October 17, 2004, 09:58:00 AM »
The greatest fighter pilot in history (Erich Hartman – Germany) was credited with shooting down 352 aircraft, and yet his own plane was never struck by a bullet fired from another aircraft.  William J. Wilsterman (USAAF) never managed to shoot at an airplane, yet his aircraft was struck by hundreds of bullets.  

Here is a very condensed version of this P-63 pilot’s career:

     The Army has long recognized the value of offering soldiers the most realistic combat simulation training as possible.  Training WWII bomber gunners proved to be especially challenging.  There is nothing quite like shooting at a 350 mph maneuvering German or Japanese fighter from a 150 mph lumbering bomber.  By the beginning of 1945, the US Army Air Force had decided that new gunners needed something beyond simulation; they needed REAL experience shooting live ammunition, at real, piloted aircraft.  Army engineers decided that American fighter planes looked very much like their German and Japanese counterparts, and shooting at them would provide the realistic experience that they were looking for.  The problem with giving students an experience this real would be avoiding the destruction of the American “target fighters” and their pilots, provided the students actually learned to hit what they were shooting at.  

     After much testing, the Army developed a somewhat bulletproof fighter plane.  They took the latest Bell fighter, the P-63, removed its guns to save weight, and then armor plated its front surfaces with hardened aluminum and bullet proof glass.   A big key to the bullet proof plane concept lie in the “frangible bullets” development.  Frangible bullets were made from powdered lead and Bakelite plastic which shatter into dust upon impact with the hardened aluminum.  When they felt that the “bullet proof” RP-63 and frangible bullets were good enough, they put them into service.  Naturally, the Army Air Force Flexible Gunnery School instructor pilots were the lucky ones to inherit the privilege of finding out just how bullet proof these new bright orange planes were.  

           

     From June of 1943 through the end of the war, William J. Wilsterman was an Army Air Force Flexible Gunnery School instructor pilot at Las Vegas Army Airfield in Las Vegas Nevada.  On three occasions in one month “Bill” discovered imperfections to this new system.  Although the RP-63’s frontal surfaces and glass were armored, there was a sweet spot where the two met.  On a gunnery target mission, part of one frangible bullet managed to squeeze through this seam and hit him on the face.  Fortunately the fragment had expended most of its energy while entering the plane and Bill’s Oxygen mask absorbed most of what it had left.  Another problem with the RP-63/frangible bullet system was that the aircraft was only armored for frontal bullet strikes.  Students manning the guns in the B-17s were instructed to only shoot while the attacking RP-63 was approaching them.  To avoid collision, the RP-63 would need to “break away”, exposing the soft skinned unarmored surfaces of the aircraft.  One overly excited gunnery student continued to fire at Bill’s RP-63 while he broke away.  Bullets impacted his left aileron with enough force to knock the joystick out of his hand.  Bill landed that mission with several holes in his “bullet proof” plane.  Like the P-39, the P-63 had an air scoop above the mid-mounted engine.  The RP-63 version was fitted with a series of baffles to stop any bullet that found its way into this scoop.  With just the right series of ricochets however, fragments of the frangible bullets could find their way into the engine compartment and puncture vital parts, such as a glycol line.  Bill once landed a smoking RP-63 after such a hit.  The aircraft had lost all of its coolant and the engine certainly would have seized had it been required to run any longer.  A handful of other RP-63 target pilots were not as lucky and ended up bailing from their stricken aircraft.  Later versions of the RP-63 were fitted with better scoops that faced rearward.  

eskimo