Author Topic: Researching wireless networking stuff (Read 1212 times)

Tarmac · « **on:** October 17, 2004, 02:48:01 PM »

Hi all. I'm looking to set up a basic wireless network at my parents' house, so that my computer upstairs and another in the basement can piggyback on our cable modem connection on the ground floor (also a computer on the ground floor, for a total of 3 computers - one on CAT5 on the ground floor, 2 wireless ones, one in basement and one upstairs).

I've read articles online, and was hoping for some real-world insight here. Anybody have any opinions or tips? I'm a networking noob, although I have enough basic knowledge of computers to build one. I've also been away from the real world for six months or so, and have no real idea what's out there nowdays.

Other threads seem to say that Netgear is a good choice, and show problems with Linksys. Also, any reason to go with either the B or G standard over the other?

llama · « **Reply #1 on:** October 17, 2004, 04:37:20 PM »

Though Netgear is good, I have had no problems with linksys gear, and I have linksys gear (and A LOT of other branded stuff too) at around 6 client's houses as well as my own.

There are two sites you should check for true real-word experiences. http://www.dslreports.com (check the hardware forums there - yes, I know that we're not talking about DSL, but trust me on this.) and http://www.practicallynetworked.com for real-world hardware reviews.

As for B versus G, unless cost is a factor, use G. G is faster as less prone to interference. That said, my house is B, and it is still faster than the DSL line I share to the house. G speeds are only useful for file transfers between computers on the LAN.

Other vague tips:

- Buy all your stuff with the same brand, including wireless cards, base stations, and routers. I say this not due to hardware conflicts (it ALL pretty much works the same from vendor to vendor, and they are all compatible with each other), but because the different brands tend to use slightly different vocabulary. Since this is your first time, getting it all from the same brand means that all the documentation will be written for each other, if you know what I mean.

- Once you get things working, ENABLE WEP ENCRIPTION, and MAC address filtering, if possible. Odds are everything will work out of the box. Great, but there's no protection in this default setup. Don't just assume no one will try to hack your little old house of yours. Make sure you enable protections against this.

- You may have to reposition 2.4 GHz cordless telephone bases if you get interference. You may need to change channels to avoid intererence with the neighbors. I still use 900 MHz phones.

Hope this helps.

-Llama

DAVENRINO · « **Reply #2 on:** October 17, 2004, 06:06:50 PM »

I have no problems with my Linksys WRT54G but Netgear is also good. In addition to what Llama said-

B versus G - My desktop is hardwired, i have a G card in my laptop, but my PDA has built-in B so I have to enable both which slows it all down to B speed. My 2.4 phone didn't interfere, even sitting right next to the router.

Security- Also change the password and SSID. Once everything is setup, you can also turn off SSID broadcast. HeHe - I am always finding the default SSID being broadcast when I use people's unsecured wireless setups to check my email with my PDA when away from home.

eagl · « **Reply #3 on:** October 18, 2004, 12:20:13 PM »

I agree with llama. I use d-link 802.11b stuff and it works fine but 802.11g would be nicer. D-link has "special" modes that can increase network throughput but it's not very compatible with other brands and can actually degrade performance if you're not using only d-link devices. If you can go with all one brand, you get the benefit of that brand's proprietary enhancements up to the point where you add a single device from a different brand, and then you gotta turn off all the enhancements or possibly suffer poor connections, slow speeds, etc.

Consider a high-gain directional antenna parked in a corner of your house. If properly placed (ie. facing away from the street in a corner so it's beaming through the house) you can get enhanced signal strength in your house while sending almost zero signal to anywhere a snooper could go to get on your network. They're only about $40-$50.

I went with one of the all-in-one broadband router plus wireless devices rather than hang a wireless access point onto an existing router or switch. It's easier to manage that way.

AKS\/\/ulfe · « **Reply #4 on:** October 18, 2004, 12:29:23 PM »

In some cases, broadcasting SSID has to be left on.

My friend's damned Mac will not remember the connection unless it's broadcasting the SSID.

So, to prevent people from getting in - I require the router to allow only trusted MAC addresses in, in addition to 128bit hex encryption. I use a Netgear router that is only 802.11b, the .11g doesn't offer any speed advantage for our connection.

There's five other SSID broadcasting networks in my area I can pick up, only one of them is password protected.
-SW

boxboy28 · « **Reply #5 on:** October 18, 2004, 02:30:40 PM »

Im running on a WLAN with DSL. Its all LINKSYS and the wireless adapters we use are the USB 2.4G 802.11B.
My mobo has a dedicated PCI slot for a wireless card, I was wondering if geting a card thats is a G or A type vs. the USB adaptor would be faster+ better?

the wireless router is a:
LINKSYS wireless-G 2.4Ghz 54g
model WRT54g

so i guess were using B adaptoers and a G router.........

Tarmac · « **Reply #6 on:** October 18, 2004, 02:39:59 PM »

Thanks for the advice, guys. I went with a linksys setup (mostly because it had rebates that made it 40 bucks cheaper than the netgear one) on the "G" standard. I went with the "speedboost" G, again, because it was the same price as the regular G setup once you factored in the rebates.

Besides a few headaches setting it up (tech support: nah, don't do it like the manual says, just do it this way), I was up and running in about 2 hours without problems.

Played AH2 last night with no big problems beyond a few micro-warps.

Thanks again!

boxboy28 · « **Reply #7 on:** October 18, 2004, 03:22:20 PM »

well after reading more and seeing the G run at 54mbs and the B run at 11mbs ...... will i see any increase for web surfing (pages load faster) or gaming ..... if i were to buy a G type card???

llama · « **Reply #8 on:** October 18, 2004, 04:46:31 PM »

You'll only see an increase in speed if your broadband connection to the Internet is faster than 11 Mbits/sec, which it isn't. That's the technical answer.

The real world answer, therefore, is No, you won't see a difference.

-Llama

eagl · « **Reply #9 on:** October 19, 2004, 02:54:09 AM »

I disagree about the speed llama. My wife's laptop uses 80211.b and mine uses 802.11G and on a b/g capable network mine runs faster. It's not about peak bandwidth, it's about response time, how it deals with collisions and multiple devices on the network, and how fast the signal drops off with distance since you only get full speed when you're within a few feet of the access point or router.

Since I've seen the difference myself, I think others would notice too, even with a consumer DSL or Cable connection. For transfers within your LAN, there would be an immediately obvious difference too.

boxboy28 · « **Reply #10 on:** October 19, 2004, 08:47:22 AM »

didnt some one up top say they were running B and G cards on a G network and the network is only as fast as the B card as it is a limiting factor?

AKS\/\/ulfe · « **Reply #11 on:** October 19, 2004, 09:22:22 AM »

The speeds will be the same. But you still get the higher quality G connection to the router itself, and the extended range.

In most cases, the difference between G and B connection will be negligable - aside from home network transfers. So long as your wireless computer is within 15ft of the router, B will do.

In houses with multiple wireless connections spread throughout the floors, G connections will be better than any Bs.
-SW

llama · « **Reply #12 on:** October 19, 2004, 12:22:42 PM »

Sigh.

OK. Imagine you have a 10,000 gallon tank of water, and you have a 1/4" diameter hose running from it to a "y" splitter.

Let's pretend that this Y Splitter for the hoses has that 1/4" hose coming from the tank, and then a 1/2" hose going to your wife, and then a full 1" hose coming to you.

Who is going to get more water from the tank faster?

Answer: its the same.

Your broadband is (probablyt) coming through at probably 1.5 Mbit/s per second. The B connection can get data from the router at 11 mbits per second, and the G can do it at 54 Mbits/ sec.

Obviously, given equal computers and a clear signal for both, it is IMPOSSIBLE for the G connection to have a faster connection to the internet.

Now then, while you don't say what these computers are, I'm willing to bet that the G computer is a better computer than the B computer, and any perceived improvements in response time are almost certainly due to this. Also, the G connection is less likely to be interfered with than the B, and interference means slowdowns. It is certainly possible that when you have done these tests, the B signal strength was somewhat down compared to the G signal strength.

Finally, the question here was about increases of speed for web surfing with G - read BoxBoy's last post again and let it sink in. Additionally, please refer to my first post where I said "...G speeds are only useful for file transfers between computers on the LAN. "

And finally, response time, collision mapping, and multiple devices on the network are handled by the ROUTER and the SWITCH/HUB, and NOT the wireless radio. Though all-in-one-wireless-routers make it seem as though the wireless radio handles this, it does not. You'll find that in most professinal LANs, the wireless radio (called the Access Point) is usually a separate device than the switch(es) and the router, and it is placed where the signal is needed, and not in the switching closet.

-------------------

And on another things -- one more tip for wireless lan setups. Even if you have WEP encryption and MAC address filtering, if you have any shared Windows drives, you should put some sort of password on them. Even WEP and MAC filtering are not 100% secure, and if someone gets on, if your shared drives aren't password protected, this person can look at (or modify) your files easily.

Yes, Windows Shared Volume passwords can also be broken (I have a few crackers I have used for clients who have forgotten theirs right here) it takes time and effort. You can tell your own computers to automatically remember these passwords so you won't have to go crazy always typing it in, but it helps keep out NEW computers.

-Llama

maddog · « **Reply #13 on:** October 19, 2004, 12:42:38 PM »

I use Linksys 54g router (wireless) and have had no problems. Installed access point to cover garage and patio... No problems here.......

eagl · « **Reply #14 on:** October 19, 2004, 01:21:26 PM »

Llama, imagine this...

You have a 1 inch hose (your broadband connection). You also have a 5 inch hose (your wireless-B connection) and a 10 inch hose.

Now put a big honking c-clamp to simulate bandwidth drop as the signal deteriorates the farther you get from the router. As you go away from the router, tighten that clamp more and more.

Both B and G will lose a similiar percentage of their bandwidth at similiar distances, and at some point you'll reach a point where you've choked the B hose down below the capacity of your broadband connection, while the G hose still has excess capacity.

That distance is a hell of a lot closer than most people think. In my house due to thick concrete walls, that distance is about 10 ft.

You can talk theory all you want, but if you haven't gone out and measured bandwidth and response time and compared both B and G (as I have personally done), you probably won't get it. As for recommending new purchases, I'll base my decisions and recommendations on me seeing very good network response on my G connection at the same time my wife sitting next to me with a B connection is complaining about how slow the network is. I'm sure an engineer looking over our shoulders would claim it's not possible because theory/design/pipes/blah blah, but practical in-use real world comparisons have shown me that there IS a difference, it IS measurable, and it points towards wireless G being desirable over wireless B even for shared broadband applications, especially now that wireless G prices have dropped to where they are now.