Whats wrong with Alt and Speed?

[TexMurphy]

Seriously.

Alt and speed are two of the most important keys to dogfighting and yet the two most whined about subjects. "waaaaaaaaaah alt monkey waaaaaaaaah". "waaaaaaaaaaaaaah fleeeeeeeeeeeee monkey waaaaaaah".

Ok so La-7s are extreamly fast on the deck. But they are soo easy to kill off in their deck runs as they always run straight. Just some alt. Dive. Boom.

Yeah its freekin hard to fight someone who comes in with an higher alt then you have. But isnt that the entire point of dogfighting? Get the advantage when you can and capitalize on it?

I see so many people get tied into deck level fights, which is ok and I dont mind. But when they are unengaged or most fighters are down they just stay low and dont work their alt back.

I dont mean this as a flame or flamebait to anyone. But Im really puzzled by this fact that the two key elements to dogfighting are the two most frown upon. Can someone please explain to me why? I might just be a naive noob but Id really like to know.

Tex

[Ack-Ack]

I don't have a problem with altitude or speed, it's how people use them that makes me cringe at times.

There is nothing more pathetic than seeing a bogie that has either an advantage in speed or altitude, or even both and watching them surrender it all or not use them and run.  Guess that's why those type of guys are really good in things like Osties.



ack-ack

[DieAz]

^^^^^^ what Ack-Ack said.

[Fariz]

Originally posted by Ack-Ack
I don't have a problem with altitude or speed, it's how people use them that makes me cringe at times.

There is nothing more pathetic than seeing a bogie that has either an advantage in speed or altitude, or even both and watching them surrender it all or not use them and run.  Guess that's why those type of guys are really good in things like Osties.

ack-ack

Ack, I think problem is that you always see those running guys under you, and can't judge their true alt or speed. I know that you come back to the mother Earth from your orbit only when your are out of fuel, food or beer.

[AKFokerFoder+]

Alt plus Speed = Energy

Energy = Life

Lose your energy, lose your life.

Billy Bishop said that the most important thing in dogfighting was gunnery, the second thing was the tactics of entering a fight, and least important was flying skills.

Fly the way you want, and ignore those who whine about the way you fly.

[mars01]

It's not alt and speed that are the problem it is people that are not aggressive and fly like pu$$ies.

They start with an advantage and as soon as they start to lose the advantage they run.  If you find one of these guys get ready for one of the most boring times you will expieriance in the MA.

Aggressive pilots = fun fight

Timid pilots = boring as hell

[Stang]

It's not even that they fly like wusses or that they don't fight the way "you want."  It's the fact that they don't fight at ALL.  I chased a knight in a 205 that I won't name last night for almost 4 sectors.  He was at 16k, I was at 13 trying to get up to him but he would not even think of engaging when he had the advantage in every single way.  Finally, he flew back to the east towards his friends, still grabbing about 3.5k ahead of me when 3 knights came in coalt to me.  This is after I had chased the guy for at least 15 minutes and repeatedly calling him out on ch200 (which is everyone's duty if they witness this crap).  The guy then came around at me when his three buddies jumped me.  All of a sudden I'm in a 4 on 1 at 15k.
Then guess what happens... he tries for a ho but misses.   I mean comeon, there was no reason for this, when I first found him he was early on his run climbing out, wasn't low on fuel or ammo, wasn't wounded or damaged, he just was a total puss.  It was absolutely disgusting.  He couldn't get a shot on me in a 4 on 1 so he dove out to vulch at the bishop field below.  When I went back and checked the film I saw who it was, and he actually was a decent pilot in a very old and esteemed squadron, only making this behavior more laughable.  
Now before I get attacked by the "I won't fly your way crowd"for calling a guy out, just listen a bit.  I'm not asking that a guy fly my way, I'm just asking that he actually FLY.  There are so many things he could have done with a huge alt and E advantage on me that would have put him in no danger at all, but he didn't even try one thing until 15 minutes later when three of his friends showed up.  All I'm saying is that when you have an advantage, use it for Christs sake.  I'd expect this kind of behavior out of a newbie, not an old vet.  
This is one of those cases where there is not a single reason why he could not engage me.  Those of you out there that don't agree frankly just don't get it.  I'm sorry, there's no other way around it.  If he had come in on me and used his advantage and gotten me I would have fired a nice on ch1 to the lad.  Even if he had tried, not gotten me and then run when he lost his advantage I would have been pleased.  There is nothing wrong with getting out when you have lost the advantage, it's the correct move unless you can turn that disadvantage into an advantage.  Not using the advantage you have is like not using the talents one is given at birth; it's an unforgivable sin.

[vorticon]

Originally posted by AKFokerFoder+
Alt plus Speed = Energy

Energy = Life

Lose your energy, lose your life.

but have one helluva good time doing it. best times ive had in ah often resulted in my virtual death by virtual bullets, which i quickly avenged in my virtual reincarnation.

[streetstang]

It is a game. If you die you get to have a new plane. If you fight hard and die you had some fun and still get a new plane.

I never saw any poing in running.

[VWE]

The La-7 is still good down low but its really been castrated in that when u hit 500mph your nose goes up weather you want it to or not. I actually got run down by a niki higher up than me, guess it didn't have the speed restriction problem I ran into.

[bustr]

Last week in the CT shane was flying a P47D-11 at and below 8k. He flew it almost exclusivly T&B. I had alt and I had speed in my FW-A5 everytime I attacked him. He killed me 4 for 4. He never got above 8k and kicked everyones arse who got near him. I think one time I was in a P51-B and he was in a Me110. I had alt and speed he had well,,,,you get the picture.

Unless I'm getting really gang banged all the time, I don't get much above 15k anymore. It saves you the time you waste having to work off 5 or 6K to not compress so you can vulch someone. Maybe Ive learned something in the CT this last month. Just get in and kill them. You can always run if it get too deep to keep your head up.

[Elfie]

Hit the nail on the head with your entire post Stang.

There was another thread just awhile ago where I described a situation where a 51 that held every advantage vs my 38 absolutely refused to engage except for high speed HO passes.


Later in that thread I described an engagement where a 51 with all those same advantages actually tryed to fight. He took a gamble and turned with my 38, at exactly the right time he disegaged and dove out.

The 2nd engagement was fun, even though it didnt result in anyone dying. The first engagement was just rediculous, if you can even call it an engagement.

[Lazer]

Anyone can fight and live with energy...

The names you hear of that qualify as "The Best" or "Elite"... Well I usually notice those are the guys flying around under 5k, making an bellybutton of the guys trying to B&Z them.

[Stang]

Cornhuskers suck this year  

[hogenbor]

Once I encountered a P-38 with a slight altitude advantage. I was climbing in a P-51B full of fuel so the E difference was a bit more than slight. The P-38 attacked me and was mildy taunting me that I didn't want to fight, but just kept jut outside guns range.

But what's the point, I could have TRIED but just would have died pointlessly, especially since the P-38 was AKAK

I always are trying to build/conserve E in this game because indeed E is life and it also helped me to kill some top pilots.

I never met Shane and he is probably a natural talent if he can do what is claimed, because if you are halfway decent and are in a better plane and have more E, you should win every time in a one on one.