I no longer recommend CH Products!

[eskimo]

I thought that I had finally found a joystick manufactuer that was free of major bugs.  I have had my CH Pro Pedals for a couple of years, they have worked well.  I have had my CH F-16 Fighterstick for about 3 or 4 months.  It worked well untill I bought my CH Pro Throttle about 1 month ago.  Since then when I start my computer the CH software (Speedkeys) cannot find the joystick.  Sometimes on start-up Win. 98 can't find the keyboard.  Friends have told me to unplug the joystick and throttle overnight (This worked).  In a prompt responce to an E-mail CH told me to do a hard reset on the throttle.  After realizing that I need to do a hard reset 75% of the time, I have been doing a hard reset at each start-up of the computer.  I then redownload speedkeys and everything works fine untill I shut the system off.  Most of the times that I have done a hard reset, speedkeys has been able to find the joystick.  About 10% of the time the system can't find the keyboard.  At that point the on/off switch won't work and I must unplug the main power supply.  About another 10% of the time speedkeys cannot find the joystick and I must restart/ re-hard reset the joystick/throttle.  Today this is what has happened, except that speedkeys could not find the joystick on the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th, and 9th tries.  I am very frustrated with CH Products and am concerned with how much wear and tear I am putting on my system with all of the restarts/unplugs.  My computer is fairly new (P-2 450), and I didn't have similar problems before I bought the CH Pro Throttle.  My PDPI gamecard has always worked well.  CH also said in a later E-mail question responce:

"The problem may be related to your keyboard or the voltage being supplied by your gameport. If there is any fluctuation in your gameport
(if it ever drops below 5 volts) the throttle will cease to work. Also, if your power supply in your case is anemic (230W or less) that could
cause inconsistent power output which would also lock up the throttle."

 I don't think that CH can blame this on anything other than their products.  I told CH that I planned on posting my problems with CH on the AH bulitin board if an reasonable solution to my problem was not presented to me. I am dissapointed that CH is willing to leave it's customers high and dry with faulty products or software, and no solutions.  I have talked to many CH Products users (in person and by E-mail/posts) that have had similar problems.  My problem is not new or unique.  I am recommending to potential customers that they do not buy CH Products since I have had serious problems that have not been reasonably fixed by CH. I also anticipate trying a different joystick system soon if a solution is not presented to me by CH.

eskimo

[Westy]

Eskimo? Can I have them? (j/k)
Try this. Power off your PC off completely.
Wait about 15 minutes and then power up, while rebooting the throttle (3 small buttons on the front) and the sticks two upper most small red buttons at the same time) the first time.
 Here's the possible problem. CH gear is programmable and it has a retaining memory.   Newer mother boards (BX for example) have a keep alive kind of voltage that keeps feeding the keyboard for some reason even after the 'soft' power shutdown - which then hoses your CH stuff. Most often you get what you experience, Speedkeys not seeing the gear or you may also find on boot up your PC doesn't see the keyboard.
 I turn my PC off completely at the power strip every time I am done using it. If not I get what you experience or keyboard loss.
 Other than that minor inconvenience I find my CH equipment to be a very rugged and generally great working gear.

 -Westy
 

[Toad]

Eskimo,

I've got all CH stuff, like you.

I had problems like that and it was driving me crazy. The CH guys kept working with me and what I finally discovered is that it was my printer!

I've got a Canon Multipass hooked up and one it's characteristics is that it sends a small jolt of voltage back to the computer on start up. This porked the throttle every time. (I also have the BX chip MB. It's not the best choice for a CH setup.)

Now I boot the computer with the printer and printer power supply off. I rarely have a problem now.

It does still happen now and again but Westy has already given you the solution.

It's a tiny pain now, but I like the CH stuff and haven't found anything better or easier to program.

[Dago]

Eskimo
I had a problem similar to yours, and discovered a problem similar to Toad.

I have an HP Officejet Printer/Fax machine. When my computer was turned off, the printer would leak voltage back into my system and this would screw up my CH joystick/Prothrottle combo.  My fix was, when this happened, to shut off the computer for a minute, push buttons on the throttle a few times, power back up and everything would be fine.

This was only a slight inconvience, not all the time, and was fixed when I built a new computer with an ASUS motherboard.  I didnt build it to fix the problem, rather I was just due a new computer.

I have worked with CH support several times, they have been great at helping me.  They have sent me spare parts "just in case", exchanged my throttle when I was having the problems described, fixed my joystick, all without cost to me.

My opinion = I love my CH hardware, have had great support and would recommend it strongly.

I hope you find out what is causing your problems soon, I know the frustrations.

Dago

[Minotaur]

Would a power supply that is not big enough cause spiking on the game port.  I am having alot of problems where my joystick starts running smooth (rock solid), then gets very spikey as I play AH.

I have eliminated:

• Heat
• Drivers
• Joysticks
• Game ports

I am not sure of the power supply that I have, but would a 230w supply with alot of stuff on it have show this problem?  

Can you run 2 power supplies, one for MB and one for all other loads?

I am very frustrated by this whole thing.  Thanks!  

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Mino
The Wrecking Crew

[eskimo]

Thanks guys.
I do leave my printer on all the time, so I will try turning it off before I shut down.  It's funny that joystick users often know more about them than the techs who work for the manufactuers.  I restarted the computer after the joystick was disconnect after 3 1/2 hours, and the printer was off.  Speedkeys found the joystick, so 1 or both of those elements helped.
Thanks again,
eskimo

[funked]

Can't disagree with you Eskimo.  The CH Pro Throttle and CH Throttle have been known to do this since 1996 and CH has taken no action to fix their hardware.  They just keep pumping it out there, knowing that it won't work on a fairly high percentage of machines...

[humble]

Mino,

The power supply could be the problem if you run a lot of stuff, normally a 230w PS is enough. However, I always reccomend 300 or more. Based on what you described in earlier posts on tech board, I still think it's a voltage issue related to heat.

[Minotaur]

 

Originally posted by humble:
Mino,

The power supply could be the problem if you run a lot of stuff, normally a 230w PS is enough. However, I always reccomend 300 or more. Based on what you described in earlier posts on tech board, I still think it's a voltage issue related to heat.

OK but heat where?  

To test for heating problem, I removed all the cards I could and installed an old SB16.  There were 3 slots open between the SB16 and the nearest card.  I had the case open and a fan blowing directly on it.  

This set-up proved no different than any other.  Started smooth, soon to get very spikey.  The card never seem to get above being "Just Warm" at any time.  Even after the spiking started.

This SB16 card is a "True Blue PnP".  You pop it in, and it works.  No drivers to load.  Win98 just likes it from the get go.  

My MB is a Asus P2B-B with non-OC P3-500.

I will explore the last option of my power supply.  I have 2 extra fans, 2 CD's, 1 HD,  1 floppy with the ussual stuff hooked up to the MB.  This could be it I am hoping.

BTW anyone in the market for slightly used (brand new) CH-products analog flight sim gear?

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Mino
The Wrecking Crew

[AKSeaWulfe]

Eskimo, I'm not quite sure what the problem is. I used to have CH gear and a TM throttle. CH F-16 Fighterstick, CH Pedals and a TM WCS MkII. I had used them on two different computers. One a P100 made a Packard Bell and the other a C466 with a mobo that really isn't made by any one company. However, I found out that when the speedkeys was looking for my joystick, 50-75% of the time it would NEVER find them. Until I discovered, jostling it around while it was looking for the joystick and then retrieving device info and sometimes moving the mouse a little would "activate" the joystick and speedkeys would find it. It COULD be related to printers as well, however I NEVER have mine on unless I'm printing something. Best guess is, they are just POS as well as the software. I've had various voltage settings and other things. The techs at CH really don't know what they are talking about, because changing voltage just increases the heat which in turn causes joysticks that run off of gameports to heat up faster which then makes you lose calibration every time you play a game. This gets old. I bought a Saitek X36F/X35T USB combo a few weeks ago and since then I've had no problems.. heh of course I broke my CH F-16 FIghterstick(slammed it into the desk and snapped the thing in half). Basically don't buy CH, THEY are the anemic products, not you're computer. :-)
-SW
ps: just try jostling the throttle back n forth and wiggle your joystick around a couple of times when it's looking for them. This usually does it.

[Horn]

Eskimo--

I had many of the same issues and problems you had--including, when the 'puter did find the j/s, it would spike like crazy ('specially the pedals)--like any good child of the 80's, I threw money at the problem--altho this time it worked--the GameCard III cured all the ills--from printer wierdness to spiking. $32 bux. Current config is p3/500, asus mb, SB sound...it works smoothly now, but I still get kilt constantly as I am, if not King, at least Prince of Dweebs...

Horn

[Minotaur]

Eskimo;

Tonight I figured out that it is possible to run USB and Analog components at the same time on AH.

My set-up: Logitech USB joystick which is an optical digital stick, CH pro throttle which is analog and a TM Elite rudder that is also analog.

Basically I have an analog [joystick/throttle/rudder] as one Win98 game controler configuration and the Logitech USB as another.  The CH Pro Throttle is programed under Speedkeys.

The neat part is that AH allows you to select any device to supply the joystick/throttle/rudder inputs.  You are not limited to any one brand you can mix and max, because AH allows them all to be connected and work together.

The Logitech has a throttle attached, but the Logitech software does not allow an external throttle to be used.  So in my case with AH, I can use an external throttle on a system that normally does not allow the use of an externally attached throttle.

BTW the Logitech will new seems to be a pretty good stick, absolutely rock stable.  I set the deadband to minimum and it has no twitch what so ever.  I have the Wingman Extreme 3d, it was about $40 at Wal-Mart.

What I would take from this, is that you do not have to stick to one manufacture for all your flight control components.  You can mix and match and they seem to work via the system provided in AH.  

I would suggest USB at least for the joystick.  After the problems that I have had with my set-up, I can understand how you don't need the frustration any more.  The USB was indeed effortless.

Good Luck!


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Mino
The Wrecking Crew

[maddog]

Went to X35/36 USB with CH rudders (USB) everything works just fine... Never going back to gameport/dos stuff...
doc

[-lynx-]

The problem is not "CH gear" - it's Pro-Throttle and the reasons are what the guys above described. It's been there for years (since newer faster boards appeared) and CH has done diddly squat to do it. My guess is would be that it's the memory chip - they're simply not willing to re-design the whole setup to cure the problem. There was a fix for older throttles (cutting off a capacitor on PCB) and it helped somewhat but the problem is still there.

On the positive side, the build quality is very high and programming is THE easiest there is... So, it's a trade off of sorts...

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-lynx-
13 Sqn RAF