The Right to Bear Hacking Scripts?

[Pei]

This came from an interesting question (one of many)  asked of Neal Stephenson (author of Snow Crash, The Cryptonomicon et al) on Slashdot:

Does the 2nd Ammendment to the US constitution protect a citizens rights to keep adn access programs for hacking etc.

In an age where information is everything an attack on information realted to you could have a direct and detrimental on you (whether this was by an individual, organization or government). For example what if I hacked into your bank and put your account balance to 0? Or what changed your record in the various security databases so you were now a wanted terrorist?

Are the tools and means of computer attack a weapon, and if so are they protected under the 2nd ammendment?

[Lazerus]

They are weapons, but are they 'arms'.



arm2   Audio pronunciation of "arms" ( P )  Pronunciation Key  (ärm)
n.

   1. A weapon, especially a firearm: troops bearing arms; ICBMs, bombs, and other nuclear arms.
   2. A branch of a military force: infantry, armor, and other combat arms.
   3. arms
         1. Warfare: a call to arms against the invaders.
         2. Military service: several million volunteers under arms; the profession of arms.
   4. arms
         1. Heraldry. Bearings.
         2. Insignia, as of a state, an official, a family, or an organization






Don't think they fit under the current definitions.

[Nash]

Originally posted by Pei
For example what if I hacked into your bank and put your account balance to 0?

There was a point in time just recently when I really coulda used something like that.

[john9001]

Originally posted by Pei

 For example what if I hacked into your bank and put your account balance to 0? Or what changed your record in the various security databases so you were now a wanted terrorist?

Are the tools and means of computer attack a weapon, and if so are they protected under the 2nd ammendment?

if you did that, you would go to jail, oh, your from oz-land , it may be legal to hack down there.

the 2nd ammendent says you can have a gun*, it does not give the right to use it, that is covered by other laws.

* gun phobic liberals may differ.

[Soulyss]

nm...

[TweetyBird]

On the otherhand nukes do fit the definition - where can I buy one?

Its amazing that those who defend brandishing arms recoil at the thought of people brandishing ideas...


No it isn't. Arms have a history of stifeling ideas.

[Gunslinger]

Originally posted by Nash
There was a point in time just recently when I really coulda used something like that.

Govt type wage garnishment?   Ex wife/future ex wife?

Sorry just curious why someone would want their account wiped out.

[Nash]

Heh....

[capt. apathy]

not a weapon or an arm.  
a tool.  a destructive device. but it can't directly kill or injure a person, only cause inconvenience or property damage.  not much help at all for defense.
      so if I was the guy writing definitions there is no way you could convince me that it is protected under the 2nd amendment.

I'd think that if you were looking to have it protected you'd have more luck under the ST amendment.  

it's a language.  code is just another type of word.  so it could be argued that - if arranging code in certain way (so that it acts as a virus when executed) is illegal, then it would be a violation of your freedom of speech.  it could be argued that while it isn't a spoken language it is communication and would be illegal to restrict.

I don't know if it would work or not but I'd think that argument would get a guy farther than protecting virus' as "arms"

[Lazerus]

Rights protected by the constitution end when they restrict the rights of others. Possesing those codes should be within a persons rights, using them should be a criminal offense.

[Jackal1]

Originally posted by Pei
For example what if I hacked into your bank and put your account balance to 0?  

  Wives have been doing this for years.
   The check hack.

[Terror]

Originally posted by TweetyBird
On the otherhand nukes do fit the definition - where can I buy one?

Its amazing that those who defend brandishing arms recoil at the thought of people brandishing ideas...


No it isn't. Arms have a history of stifeling ideas.

Arms have only had a history of stifeling ideas when the idea creator is unarmed.  One of the first tasks of a dictator or tyrranical governemnt is to disarm it's citizens.

Terror

[vorticon]

Originally posted by Lazerus
Rights protected by the constitution end when they restrict the rights of others. Possesing those codes should be within a persons rights, using them should be a criminal offense.

thats like saying pssessing child pornography should be withing a persons rights, wacking off to it should be a criminal offense. the only reason to have it  is to use it.

[-MZ-]

There's no scenario I can think of where one of these scripts could be used to defend your life or property.

[Terror]

Could it be possible that these scripts are protected under freedom of speech rights?  It's just source code.  Just like the instructions to make bombs or weapons are covered under freedom of speech rules, could source code that accomplishes a destructive act be also similarly covered?  (BTW, there is a legitimate use for these scripts.  Helping an administrator improve security on his own systems.)  Also, would source code that can be destructive in nature, but have very legitimate uses (IE Eraser ) be deemed "illegal"...?  

Just some thoughts...

Terror