Author Topic: Researching wireless networking stuff  (Read 1138 times)

Offline humble

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Researching wireless networking stuff
« Reply #15 on: October 19, 2004, 01:53:45 PM »
Under normal applications their is a measurable difference in thruput between B and G. I have both and eagl hit it right on, in the real world its easy to tell the difference. I have 5 computers online spread over a 3800 single story house. My wife was having a problem and I swapped out her "G" card and put a "B" I had lying around in while I was rebuilding the box...took her about 30 sec to notice the difference and ***** about it:)....

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Offline boxboy28

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« Reply #16 on: October 19, 2004, 04:31:12 PM »
Last question is there any benifit to going for a wireless card vs a USB adaptor ( im gonna buy a G type) - like better singal strenght or speed for one or the other ???
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Offline llama

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Researching wireless networking stuff
« Reply #17 on: October 19, 2004, 04:35:47 PM »
Guys, do you think I make this stuff up?

The issue we're talking about now is signal quality for sure, and possbily compatibility between different brands or models of hardware, and NOT about the intrinsic way B versus G works.

It isn't just that the G signal has a higher data rate given a clear signal, and it is NOT LIKE "Both B and G will lose a similiar percentage of their bandwidth at similiar distances." The G signal simply has a longer range overall.

But anyway, if you guys are having problems/ have had problems with B at distances greater than 15 feet, there there are issues relating to antenna placement you should be thinking about. Because of the nature of G, it can overcome poor antenna placement that can clobber a B connection, but don't mistake that for G being instrinsically faster than B.

When PROPERLY installed, a B connection can go hundreds of feet and through cinderblock walls, and will allow web surfing that is just as fast as G. At least it does at the client sites where I install it, and at my cinderblock-built house.

(As an aside, you can get a good glimpse of the complexities of this issue over at: http://gpsinformation.net/articles/80211ap.htm
)

-Llama

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Offline eagl

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« Reply #18 on: October 19, 2004, 05:36:25 PM »
Boxboy,

I've had cable modems installed in my house twice, both times the cable company insisted on sending a tech rep to my house even though I could have done it myself, and both times the tech reps were very very happy I chose not to use the offered USB network adaptors because they get a lot of tech support calls for USB network adaptors.  From a pure techy and gamers point of view, USB network adaptors are sometimes seen as *bad* because USB requires the cpu to do extra work, and by definition anything that makes the cpu do more work is bad for gaming and offends a computer geek's sense of right and wrong.  On some computers, a network adaptor on a USB port can use up to 20% of the cpu.  It's not that bad in modern computers, but I had a pentium 3 700mhz that would spike to 90% or more cpu if I used a usb mouse and simply wiggled the mouse around on the screen.  The hardware and drivers are better now, but I still don't like having extra usb adaptors sucking any cpu time if it's not absolutely necessary.

I've also seen cases where a heavily loaded computer (high cpu usage) will start dropping network packets when using a USB network adaptor.  If you're going to be heavily tasking your computer, a usb adaptor might not be the best choice.

On the other hand, a usb adaptor may be used with a USB extension cable to let you place the antenna in a better location without the signal degredation you'd get by using a pc card and regular analog antenna extension cable.  Lots of wireless networking geeks are taking those tiny usb wireless adaptors and putting them at the focal point of wire mesh chinese parabolic cooking utensils (used for cooking noodles and stuff like that), turning them into directional antennas with ranges increasing up to several miles.  They love these things because the entire adaptor fits at the focal point of the antenna reflector and the extension cable is the digital USB cable, not an analog antenna cable, so there is zero signal loss due to long antenna cables.  That means they can even use a powered USB hub and run a rather long USB cable anywhere necessary to get line-of-sight to other antennas without worrying about expensive shielded antenna cables or losing the signal.  But those guys are going for connection range and not really worried about cpu usage.

I guess it depends on what you're going to use the computer for because both have their good and bad points.

breakbreak

Llama,  I don't think you're making it up, but theory simply doesn't always hold true in practice.  I'm not sure if it's even possible to improperly set up my wireless router's antennas...  Put router on desk, point both antennas straight up, make sure I don't hide it behind stuff.  It's not rocket science.  I've fiddled with it while measuring signal strength and without a high gain directional wireless antenna it's simply not possible to get a good signal from my router to my wife's office only 30 ft away due to the signal passing at an oblique angle through two 6 inch thick brick walls.  No matter how skilled someone is at pointing those two antennas straight up, the signal loss is going to be there and it drops the bandwidth down to less than half of the 1.5mBps cable modem I have.  Even with the high gain antenna I installed pointed right at my wife's computer desk, the signal is still degraded to where a computer on that desk can't max out my cable modem.

An 802.11G connection along the same route would easily be able to fully load the cable modem due to the higher available bandwidth for a given signal strength.  I do not understand why you fail to get this simple concept, but I'm done arguing with you over it.  You sound like an engineer explaining to a pilot who just bailed out of his plane because the engine failed that it's not possible for the engine to fail because these documents *right here* prove it wouldn't fail, so the pilot MUST have done something to cause it to fail.  I've been in that situation a dozen times in the F-15E...  The radar quits working or the displays freeze or the moving map flashes up on the hud for a second, and always the engineers and maintenance people say that it's not possible, they can't figure out why, whatever.  It's the difference between tech specs and the real world, and it's why in normal everyday usage an 802.11G connection will quite often be faster than an 802.11B connection even though it's ultimately utilizing a network pipe that is slower than the THEORETICAL maximum bandwidth of the 802.11B standard.  And this discussion hasn't even gotten into the areas of network overhead, channel sharing, packet framing, and all the other nitty gritty details that chip away at that max theoretical bandwidth.
Everyone I know, goes away, in the end.

Offline boxboy28

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« Reply #19 on: October 19, 2004, 06:16:40 PM »
OK explain this one to me
 
Dads PC is hard wired to the DSL router  
after testing the speed on DSLREPORTS.COM   ( i tested both computers three times each and took the average...his average

down/up speed is
241/213

mine on the linksys wireless B USB adaptor
down/up
551/194


why am i getting a faster download speed than he is???

I figure yes my upload would be worse cause it has to go throught the wirelss then the router and so on..............

yes i know ever time you run the test the info is different!

His PC has on board gigbyte ethernet plug Asus P4PE
« Last Edit: October 19, 2004, 06:23:15 PM by boxboy28 »
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Offline llama

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« Reply #20 on: October 19, 2004, 07:01:43 PM »
Eagl,

All you've really stated is that the G signal manages to get through your walls better than a B signal. That's it. Signal strength.

We've also agreed that better signal strength equals better speeds. Great.

Then you make the leap that G can surf the internet faster than B, implying that is has something to do with "...network overhead, channel sharing, packet framing..." and so on. Do you really believe this? Obviously, in your case, it has to do with a signal getting through with G versus not getting through with B. End of story.

Now then, for other people in the world, on equal comptuers, with a good signal for both B and G, internet surfing speeds are essentially the same. Yes, tests can differ from time to time, but on the average, things are the same. One need only look at the url I provided earlier for REAL WORLD EXAMPLES of this, and they jive with my real world experience.

And as for personal comparisons, rather than comparing me to a deskbound engineer, given my track record installing wireless LANs for many business clients and writing about the subject in magazines, as opposed to setting up a wireless network in your own home, I think the proper comparison is that of a seasoned commercial pilot who has seen it all (me) versus a guy who flies his own Cessna from place to place sometimes. Sorry.

------------

Boxboy:

1. Has your dad installed the most recent gigabyte LAN adapter driver? What OS is he running?

2.  What speed is your broadband supposed to be (did your provider rate it, or is it cablemodem?)

3. Do different sites' speed tests come up with the same speed ratios?

- Llama

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Offline boxboy28

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« Reply #21 on: October 20, 2004, 09:21:29 AM »
LLama   - answers to your questions

1. dont think so as im his new IT guy here and i just moved here 2 weeks ago and havent got  in there to optimize all his stuff.  
XP pro

2.  dont know we are in the moutians of NC  and i think we're far from the phone box so any thing is better than dial up (this DSL)

3.   Every site i tested were different i picked one site that seemed the fastest and tested them both 3 times each and took an average.
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Offline llama

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« Reply #22 on: October 20, 2004, 04:50:44 PM »
Oh, those numbers from the download test. What units are those numbers in? Kilobyte per second? Mbits per sec?

-Llama

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Offline boxboy28

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« Reply #23 on: October 20, 2004, 06:02:24 PM »
both Kbs    i got to get into his office tonight and do some upgrading so ill check his driver versions for everythign
^"^Nazgul^"^    fly with the undead!
Jaxxo got nice tata's  and Lyric is Andre the giant with blond hair!