ENY, the limiter, and making the game better

[Furious]

I like the lopsidedness.  

It's back to the way it used to be and it's fun to be a rook again.




...it is funny though that the folks that  posted unhappy thoughts re. the team numbers are not willing now to move about to fix it.

[indy007]

Instead of basing ENY on total number of players, here's another solution:

Base ENY on the number of friendly planes within 100 miles of the base you're rolling out from? The planeset would still be available, however, lower ENY planes (lala, pony, etc) would have to take off from second line bases when a major furball is going on. Instead of removing them completely during unbalanced fights, it would decrease their overall density

upsides:

* People can stop whining since all planes are available.
* The outnumbered defenders don't have to contend with a non-stop stream of low ENY planes.
* Longer flights + longer climbs would take more fights off of the deck and back up to altitude.
* Decreased horde density.
* Fights across a more broad front.

downsides:

* Decreased horde density (works both ways. I like to ZnB the la7 herds in a g10.)
* Would impact the usefulness of low ENY planes that don't have drop tanks.
* Would need a loophole in the code to allow big missions to takeoff & not get raped by ENY just cuz they're all leaving the same base.

[DoKGonZo]

I understand, Slapshot.

My main position is that the goal is to get the MA to be something that anyone can log into at any hour and be presented with some viable option to play the game. Right now that is not that way if you're a Rook. So it's still broken - you still have a large number of people who log in, see a more or less hopeless situation which will persist for hours or days, and then likely log off.

I don't think HT only fixes things because people complain. I do think the priority of things he fixes is affected by how much people gripe, though. Having been on his side of the fence for a couple of years, I'm very sure that it has an impact.


There will always be - and should always be - some level of numeric imbalance. This is, afterall, a war at some level. The core problem is that players have settled into a pattern where the relative odds do not change over the course of a week. So one group of people is always at a disadvantage. Worse still, the longer the imbalance persists the more the weaker country is attacked by both sides - either in their quest for a reset, or in their comfort in attacking only with overwhelming odds.

One thing which contributes to this is things like NOE bomber formations and towns which can be shot down by cannons. It makes winning by sheer weight of numbers so very easy - even with lesser planes. It is the path of least resistance.

[SlapShot]

DoK ... I know exactly what you speak of ... but ...

Come fly with me some night as a Knight and I will show you stuff such as ...

I look at the map and see a remote base start to blink (with big Dar-Bar or no Dar-Bar).

I launch and lo and behold its an inbound Rook raid. Seems to be an endless supply of NOE Lancs, B17s, 110s, P-51s, P-47s, P-38s, N1Ks, 109s, 190s ... etc.

or

Seafires, A6Ms, F6Fs, FM-2, F4-Us ... like coming off a conveyor belt.

I guess I have run into the "Rook Horde". One can still be outnumbered and still have a "horde". These are the ones that really DON'T want to defend against the Knights/Bish and only want to milkrun on their own.

So ... as you and other Rooks take a beating on one or two fronts, you have your own private "horde" running amok and leaving you holding the bag.

This is what I fight EVERY night ... so even if the Knights enjoy a numbers advantage, there are still some of us who meet the "other horde" face on and in most instances, eventually get our arses handed to us ... but when we do turn them back ... that is the icing on the cake.

So ... my point is, I too face the "horde" most every night.

[SKDenny]

Originally posted by SlapShot
DoK ... I know exactly what you speak of ... but ...

Come fly with me some night as a Knight and I will show you stuff such as ...

I look at the map and see a remote base start to blink (with big Dar-Bar or no Dar-Bar).

I launch and lo and behold its an inbound Rook raid. Seems to be an endless supply of NOE Lancs, B17s, 110s, P-51s, P-47s, P-38s, N1Ks, 109s, 190s ... etc.

or

Seafires, A6Ms, F6Fs, FM-2, F4-Us ... like coming off a conveyor belt.

I guess I have run into the "Rook Horde". One can still be outnumbered and still have a "horde". These are the ones that really DON'T want to defend against the Knights/Bish and only want to milkrun on their own.

So ... as you and other Rooks take a beating on one or two fronts, you have your own private "horde" running amok and leaving you holding the bag.

This is what I fight EVERY night ... so even if the Knights enjoy a numbers advantage, there are still some of us who meet the "other horde" face on and in most instances, eventually get our arses handed to us ... but when we do turn them back ... that is the icing on the cake.

So ... my point is, I too face the "horde" most every night.

Changed my mind not worth replying too.  What a waste of time

[DoKGonZo]

Originally posted by SlapShot
...

I look at the map and see a remote base start to blink (with big Dar-Bar or no Dar-Bar).

I launch and lo and behold its an inbound Rook raid. Seems to be an endless supply of NOE Lancs, B17s, 110s, P-51s, P-47s, P-38s, N1Ks, 109s, 190s ... etc.

or

Seafires, A6Ms, F6Fs, FM-2, F4-Us ... like coming off a conveyor belt.

I guess I have run into the "Rook Horde". One can still be outnumbered and still have a "horde". These are the ones that really DON'T want to defend against the Knights/Bish and only want to milkrun on their own.

...

Given a choice of "defending" against multiple Hordes and eventually just getting vultched when the NOE Lanc's and B17's and B26's pork what might otherwise be a decent battle, and going on the offensive somewhere else - I take the latter option myself. But I'm rarely attached to a group of more than 8 or 10. That ain't a Horde, and that ain't a milk run.

[SlapShot]

Originally posted by DoKGonZo
Given a choice of "defending" against multiple Hordes and eventually just getting vultched when the NOE Lanc's and B17's and B26's pork what might otherwise be a decent battle, and going on the offensive somewhere else - I take the latter option myself. But I'm rarely attached to a group of more than 8 or 10. That ain't a Horde, and that ain't a milk run.

I am not really choosing to defend against multiple hordes, that just the way that it works out most of the time. What I hope for is to run in a group such as yours (8 to 10) willing to fight and if repelled, might come back again for some more fun and fighting.

My point was that hordes exist in all countries at all times ... some hordes being bigger than others ... so you don't have to be on the out-numbered side to experience/deal with the horde at anytime when logging into the MA.

[DoKGonZo]

Anyway ... getting back to the original idea ... throttling odds via a shift in the motif of ENY ... focusing on certain capabilities (speed, ordinance, etc.) ...

- Ordinance is only really needed to close hangers. Cities can be handily taken down by any quad-cannon birds. So for this idea to work cities and capital ships need to be cannon-proofed.

- The Horde doesn't really need speed or climb rate as much. It has numbers and bases are close - so if they need an extra minute to climb to altitude, there's plenty of friendlies around to keep the few enemies occupied.

- NOE bomber formations need to somehow be part of this equation. Take these away and the Horde becomes much more of a band of lawn-darts and therefore much easier to cope with.

[SlapShot]

- Ordinance is only really needed to close hangers. Cities can be handily taken down by any quad-cannon birds. So for this idea to work cities and capital ships need to be cannon-proofed.

Sounds good to me.

- The Horde doesn't really need speed or climb rate as much. It has numbers and bases are close - so if they need an extra minute to climb to altitude, there's plenty of friendlies around to keep the few enemies occupied.

OK.

- NOE bomber formations need to somehow be part of this equation. Take these away and the Horde becomes much more of a band of lawn-darts and therefore much easier to cope with.

What is your thoughts on how to prevent NOE bomber formations. I am at a loss as to how HTC could hamper/limit this.

Dive bombing formations is also a problem as far as I am concerned. Wouldn't requiring one to be in the "scope" to unload bombs on formations solve this problem ?

I still like the idea of moving the "towns" further from the field.

This would eliminate the lack of town killers that are lost to the vulch cap. This would in a sense elimiate vulching and also require the attackers to put up a fighting front between the base and the town.

I would also have a GV hanger(s) at the town and/or a spawn point from the base to the town. This would still provide some sort of immediate defense at the town, and give the GVers a role. If the attack force wants to be effective, they would have eliminate this threat rather quickly.

[DoKGonZo]

Originally posted by SlapShot
...

What is your thoughts on how to prevent NOE bomber formations. I am at a loss as to how HTC could hamper/limit this.

Dive bombing formations is also a problem as far as I am concerned. Wouldn't requiring one to be in the "scope" to unload bombs on formations solve this problem ?

I still like the idea of moving the "towns" further from the field.

...

I agree that the "battles" should be more over the towns - vehicle bases should be relocated to the cities so that the tank v. tank battles happen there instead of parked at the end of runways. And fields should only be capturable when 2 "adjacent" towns are captured (or something like that).


As for NOE bomber formations - ENY 'em at 5. Single bombers are still at their current ENY, but you lose formations as soon as the odds start to swing seriously your way. And if you have that many surplus players, you can afford 1 pilot per bomber. Set the ENY for formations of Boston's and Ju-88's at like 10 - the Ki-67 at like 8.

This indirectly affects the dive bombing heavies in that it greatly reduces their odds of getting close enough to press forward their lame-brained attack. And it reduces their payload as well.

I would think this is a pretty easy fix to put in.

[Zazen13]

Originally posted by Furious
I like the lopsidedness.  

It's back to the way it used to be and it's fun to be a rook again.




...it is funny though that the folks that  posted unhappy thoughts re. the team numbers are not willing now to move about to fix it.

I totally agree. It's much better and much more fun overall to be fighting 5 enemy than to be fighting over 1 enemy with 5 friendlies. It's the climate that made me fall in love with AH. I love being Rook!

I think that's why there's not much whining about numbers now. Rooks have been outnumbered before and just learned how to deal with it on their own. It's not a big deal for most with experience, you just have to adjust your tactics accordingly. Inevitably, you'll be reset if outnumbered for extended periods, so if land-grabbing is your game, long-term numbers imbalance is an issue. But, imbalance doesn't mean you can't find good fights. In fact, the quality of fights goes up the more you are outnumbered, to a point, it just requires you fly higher and engage and dis-engage more descriminately to avoid the would-be gang-bangers.

Zazen