Author Topic: Bill Clinton as UN Secretary General? (Read 1527 times)

Ripper29 · « **Reply #30 on:** October 23, 2004, 03:42:01 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by GRUNHERZ

Should the USA both fight the most and do the most peacekeeping to clean up that european mess?

When did the Balkans become part of Europe?

Otto · « **Reply #31 on:** October 23, 2004, 04:07:05 PM »

Bill Clinton as UN Secretary General

He'll be too busy chasing anything that can pass a Chromosome Count to do any harm....

lasersailor184 · « **Reply #32 on:** October 23, 2004, 05:14:28 PM »

No, bill doesn't have any balls. He would only stick to polls and not do the right things.

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #33 on:** October 23, 2004, 05:29:20 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Ripper29
When did the Balkans become part of Europe?

2000BC? Maybe a bit later, whenever the greek civilztion started and gave birth to european civilization. So perhaps the real question is when the rest of europe became part of the balkans..

Heck I thiought Canadian education was better than that.....

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #34 on:** October 23, 2004, 08:16:05 PM »

I'm crying right now GS...

Nice to see that you feel that the UN has no role in stoping genocides and human rights violations. I guess there goes yoiur unwritten unversal law...

Also I find it funny how you state that I am responsible for stopping the serb genocide at qa time when I was a small kid. But hey thats what you UN coward types like the dutch bastards in srebrenica always had in mind, let the little kids and old women deal with the serbs.. Right? Eh?

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #35 on:** October 23, 2004, 08:23:43 PM »

And you GS? Saying that I have no right to be upset about Srebrenbica beacuse I was a little kid at tyhe time and too young to fight or because I was in america? The whole world should be upset about that. That was shameful...

And frankly I think your post full of unwaranted personal attacks was way out of line in this thread.. I only suggested my wish that the UN act more agrssively in situations of genocide because my country suffered from it a great deal, my family members were killed, homes where I grew up were destroyed, my mother nearly decapitated, etc etc etc.. I didnt like that period and I didnt like what happend. So I have every ****ing right to voice my opinion that would like the UN to intervene in other genocides and crimes because I dont want the same to happendf to other innocent victims like my people, all of them the serbs, bosinans, the croats all who suffered in helplesness when the killing squads came to thir homes. And I dont want other kids to be angry like I was...

Now you can say whatever smug arrogant stuff yiou want, you can make fun of my weight, you can makje fun of my age at the time but if you deny my right to ask the world community to do more about genocides then you truly are a ****ing bastard...

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #36 on:** October 23, 2004, 08:56:21 PM »

GS I was supportuive of the UN efforts up to Srebrenica. I was so shocked after I heard and saw reports of what happened there, that I lost all faith.. Thats where all this comes from... To just let the killers take all those innocent people after what was going on the past few years..... Its infuriating...

So no your ambulance analogy doesnt work. A more proper analogy for my anger about srebrnica is to that of an anger at policeman who gives the victim of rape back to rapist murderer so he can finish the job...

I dont want to be angry but I just cant get that image of those buses and those bluehelmets standing idly by as the serbs took the people.

Frankly I still just dont know how to deal with it and it makes me have very negative feelings towards the UN and its effectiveness...

If they arent there to stop the slaughter of 8,000 refugees under their express protection then whats the point? Why even have this charade?

Do you have an answer to any of that GS?

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #37 on:** October 23, 2004, 09:30:35 PM »

Its not as much blame as its anger GS...

As for "blame." The fault for the war lies with our people, with our politicians, our racism and our lunatics and most of all our inabity to forgive for outrages of the past and accept our responsibilty for causaing them to each other over the years. And unfortunately the war just made it worse and they hate each other even more.

As for anger, I just dont know what to make of it when the UN calls srebrnica a safe area, invites 10,000 refugees in and then gives them to the serbs. By 1995 I think it was obvious for everyone what the serbs were doing to bosina.. I dont think any sane person could think that the serbs would treat them well no matter what, genocide or no genocide. So I'm jusat very shocked, and very angry that the UN did not protect those people as they promised...

And just look at what you wrote, the way the UN is setup is what made the srebrenica safe zone meaningless. Yet the promises drew in 10,000 people, all of whoose lives were very meaningful...

So it comes down to my anger and my wish that the UN becomes more meaingful and agressive in the future..
I want to move on and forgive, and maybe if the UN changes, learns from its mistakes, and becomes more agressive in stopping these genodices then it will be easier...

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #38 on:** October 23, 2004, 10:00:39 PM »

Problem for me is GS that those squabling countries are the UN... Add that to the fact that UN agrrement is used as some sort of moral compass and then you get these situations like srebrenica - where things are happy and safe politically and bureocratically and agreeable to the intellectuals obessed with proriety and process but real people are slaughtered...

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #39 on:** October 23, 2004, 10:16:15 PM »

And I said that I supported the UN efforts up to srebrenica.

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #40 on:** October 23, 2004, 10:29:34 PM »

Intresting view. And thanks for saying that srebrenica was a disaster, your posts so far were making me doubt if yiou felt that way.

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #41 on:** October 23, 2004, 10:36:03 PM »

But the UN is the bickering nations...

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #42 on:** October 23, 2004, 10:50:13 PM »

GS to me the srebranica thing comes down to this:

The worlds largest internatrinal organization pledged its peacekeepers to protect srebrenica and invited 10,000 refugees there. The serbs came, the UN protected nothing, 10,000 died. An unmitigated disaster as you said.

It made me very angry and I lost faith in the UN and pretty much anyting it sets out to do.... In the future I wish that the UN does more meaningful things when they make such promises.. I hope they do.

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #43 on:** October 23, 2004, 11:00:13 PM »

So then whats the point?

And what is "cooperation?"

For example even after Bosnia the Russians would have veteod any serious UN moves on Kosovo.

How do you cooperate with nations like that?

I just dont have faith in the real world usefulness of the UN, its just anger now and a good deal of ambivalence - the latter which you seem to share...

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #44 on:** October 23, 2004, 11:20:40 PM »

Is the video up? Ands are download instruction in the thread?

I'm sure the UN can give blankets to old women, but I wish it could be counted on to do more... Apparently it cant because it relies so much on the whims of the members. Thats fine of course, but then UN approval or UN consensus should not be used as some great moral yardstick or prerequsite for action.. As clearly it has nothing to with morals or justice or correctness, just the whims of member states on the parrticular issues at hand...

Good quote, whatever its context, the words are exacvtly what I feel when I think of the UN most times...