109G/la-5/7 and the slats

[1K3]

Do slats have negativce effect (like sudden "snaps") on 109Gs/la-5/7 in r/l if you pull the stick suddenly @ lo-turning speeds? I notice that slats dont always come out evenly and i think that's what's causing the 109G or la-7 to snap in AH2.

[Kweassa]

Frankly, the slats feel like a hinderance rather than help.

 Or, if the 109s maneuver that unstably even with the slat assists, I'd hate to think what it would be like if it didn't have slats at all.

[Karnak]

Originally posted by 1K3
Do slats have negativce effect (like sudden "snaps") on 109Gs/la-5/7 in r/l if you pull the stick suddenly @ lo-turning speeds? I notice that slats dont always come out evenly and i think that's what's causing the 109G or la-7 to snap in AH2.

It was a problem in reality too.  Some 109 pilots wired the slats shut.

[Tilt]

Slats extend above local AoA and so under some conditions one wings slat may extend prior to another.

Whilst delaying departure as the AoA increases they have the characturistic of very rapid lift loss at the eventual departure point.

On the La 5/7 I believe HTC have modelled a  fairly violent wing dip at this point which I believe is a function of the prop influence. (The shape of the la wing puts a lot of it behind the prop.)


The 109's just seem to "mush out" but I dont fly them that often to comment really.

[Scrap]

the 109G series.. and F for that matter should have the slat deplying seperately.  Only the E series should pop both at the same time.  This was a problem for the LW in the early 109s.  I believe that the G series was supposed to be the more "touchy" of the bunch.  

That's why I LOVE my F4!

[HoHun]

http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=132616

[Grendel]

Originally posted by Karnak
It was a problem in reality too.  Some 109 pilots wired the slats shut.

Urban myth. They didn't.

It's been suggested, that this might have happened in the desert conditions.

However, there hasn't yet been a single source showing evidence of this practise, and aviation museum cutators, Messerschmitt 109 pilots or Me 109 expert s I've asked if they've ever heard about such practise have said they've never, ever heard about such thing, and dismissed it.

So no, by current information, 109 pilots didn't  wire their slats shut.

[GScholz]

From an interview with Franz Stigler (109 ace):

"Did pilots like the slats on the wings of the 109?

Yes, pilots did like them, since it allowed them better positions in a dogfight, along with using the flaps. These slats would also deploy slightly when the a/c was reaching stall at higher altitudes showing the pilot how close they were to stalling....this was also useful when you were drunk!"

[Angus]

Gunther Rall did not prefer the slats, and urban myth claims that the pilot that wired them was actually Hartmann.

I may have the explanation for this.
From a Commercial Pilot aerodynamics teaching book:
(Very very thick)
"Principles of flight",ISBN 91-973123-1-2
Section 8.9

"Some aircraft are equipped with automatic slats. These are hinged in such a way that the press distribution at high A.o.A. pushes the slat forwards/downwards at high A.o.A.

That kind of automatic slat has to be very well balanced and glide easily to have the desired effect. A slightly damaged automatic slat may open at higher A.o.A. than the normal opening one. This will cause assymetrical lift and unacceptable roll disturbances at high A.o.A."

Pretty much tells out loud what some of those old 109 pilots were saying, - that the slats were throwing them off their aim.
In a perfect world slats like these were of course wonderful, but is wasn't a perfect world you see.......

[Meyer]

Angus, you think that Messerschmitt equipped his 109s with "slightly damaged" slats?

[Angus]

Equipped? No.

Do you think all 109's from combat and dirty field were always in perfect condition?

[GScholz]

Angus, do you think that if the 109 pilots didn't like the slats and were wiring them shut, that Messerschmitt would have continued to incorporate the slats in 5 years of 109 designs from the E model to the K?

I don't think so.

[Angus]

I think it would have been a matter of opinion, and especially under difficult circumnstances, delicate mechanism is the first to suffer.

Have to deal with that kind of stuff every day.

[GScholz]

There is nothing delicate about the slats. Two massive hinges and a metal slat, that's it. No springs or any mechanism at all, it's no more complicated than a door.

[HoHun]

Hi Angus,

>I think it would have been a matter of opinion, and especially under difficult circumnstances, delicate mechanism is the first to suffer.

You're making up a problem where none existed.

Bad style, Angus - where's your evidence?

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)