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Author Topic: 109G/la-5/7 and the slats  (Read 7162 times)

Offline Angus

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109G/la-5/7 and the slats
« Reply #75 on: November 02, 2004, 11:49:12 AM »
How were the 109 slats hinged.?
Anyway, after all, automatic slats seem to be anything but all the same, at least between planes.
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It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land. (Werner Mölders)

Offline gripen

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109G/la-5/7 and the slats
« Reply #76 on: November 02, 2004, 04:53:34 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Angus
How were the 109 slats hinged.?


There was no hinges at all, the slots of the Bf109 moved just in/out. The  early models before Bf 109F had a bit different design than later models.

gripen
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Offline niklas

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109G/la-5/7 and the slats
« Reply #77 on: November 03, 2004, 12:31:49 PM »
La slats (bad scan but better than nothing)

I don´t know whether the opening gap on the innerside is so good for the pressure effect of a slat ... (?)



niklas
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Offline StarOfAfrica2

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109G/la-5/7 and the slats
« Reply #78 on: November 03, 2004, 01:36:45 PM »
Its wonderful that yall are creating this wonderful discourse on the slats on the 109.  Along with mentions of various other planes.  That being said, I would like to point out a something that might be of slightly more importance to most of us on the BBS, that has only rarely even been mentioned in this thread, is how the slats perform in this simulation.  Whatever the real life performance might have been, I'm sure it is not faithfully modelled here and now in AHII because quite frankly THEY SUCK.  Whether its a bug, a screwed flight model........I have no idea, I never even knew slats existed until AHII came out and the 109 became more exciting than a roller coaster if you go too slow in a tight turn.  In this sim they are not a way to prevent stalls, they CAUSE them.  As one previous poster put it, give me a welder.........
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Offline Overlag

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109G/la-5/7 and the slats
« Reply #79 on: November 03, 2004, 01:55:29 PM »
slats delay the effect of stalls, it doesnt stop them

if you ignore the stall buzzer and slats as a warning, then so be it.....
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Adam Webb - 71st (Eagle) Squadron RAF Wing B
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Offline Angus

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109G/la-5/7 and the slats
« Reply #80 on: November 04, 2004, 05:58:09 AM »
The slays visual deployment is in my opinion a very good feature in AH2, I had seen it before in IL2.
You can see it, hear it, and feel it, and I rather feel it helps you to ride the stall in the 109.
I fly the 109 at times, and I think this is perhaps why I partly like it,  - visual stall!
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It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land. (Werner Mölders)

Offline gripen

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109G/la-5/7 and the slats
« Reply #81 on: November 04, 2004, 12:37:07 PM »
Here (Massimo Tessitoris LaGG-3 site ) is my favorite slot design; mechanically simple, mainteance free, no asyncronous opening and of course made by the Finns ;)

gripen
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Offline Charge

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109G/la-5/7 and the slats
« Reply #82 on: November 05, 2004, 04:41:43 AM »
So a slot lets the airflow through the wing in certain AoA to straighten turbulent airflow on top of wing?

(Notice slat/slot)

-C+
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"When you wish upon a falling star, your dreams can come true. Unless it's really a giant meteor hurtling to the earth which will destroy all life. Then you're pretty much screwed no matter what you wish for. Unless of course, it's death by meteorite."

Offline Angus

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109G/la-5/7 and the slats
« Reply #83 on: November 05, 2004, 05:50:26 AM »
Exactly.
The myth however states that automatic slats did not necessary need the high A.o.A. to deploy.
That's something I ain't figured out yet, - if, how and why?
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It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land. (Werner Mölders)

Offline Angus

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109G/la-5/7 and the slats
« Reply #84 on: November 12, 2004, 09:42:00 AM »
Got some input on my way to to this thread.
I'ts going to contain information, so PUNT ;)
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It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land. (Werner Mölders)

Offline Angus

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109G/la-5/7 and the slats
« Reply #85 on: November 12, 2004, 11:13:40 AM »
Ok, here goes.
Contacted a pilot (old wingco) who flew Phantom jets, which had automatic leading edge slats. He confirmed that the slats would deploy rather fast, giving very fast extra lift. The faster, the more.
He said he liked them very much, however he knew of instances where there were wing breakoffs/failiures because of slat effects, - radically increasing lift. (Phantom that is)

He confirmed that the faster the aircraft, the more was the feel of slats deploying.

He also said that the 109 could have their slats fixed shut easily, however that resulted in quite much higher landing speeds.

He did not know of any famous ace that had the slats fixed like all the time, but he was all ears!

He confirmed that the slats would have to be in absolutely perfect order to have the desired effect.

I will have more coming, digging deeper into the pond.

Regards

Angus
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It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land. (Werner Mölders)

Offline joeblogs

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Simultaneous invention
« Reply #86 on: November 12, 2004, 01:31:53 PM »
Handlye Page And a German engineer obtained patents on slats at essentially the same time. It was a case of independent invention. They cross-licensed with each other.

-Blogs

Quote
Originally posted by Staga
Angus; Hasn't anyone told you slats were patented by Handley-Page, you know that British aircraft manufacturer?
Are you aware that for example earlier Handley-Page Halifax bombers had similar slats to help slow-speed handling and that those were removed when the wing leading edge had to be strenghtened?

They were British inventions; Shouldn't you be proud they become so popular in Messerschmitts and are used even today in just about every fighter and passenger aircraft?

Oh I'm sorry; You already decided they suck.
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Offline StarOfAfrica2

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109G/la-5/7 and the slats
« Reply #87 on: November 12, 2004, 02:04:17 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Overlag
slats delay the effect of stalls, it doesnt stop them

if you ignore the stall buzzer and slats as a warning, then so be it.....


That would be my fault as a pilot if I ignored the stall warning.  Simple fact is, the horn goes off AFTER the slats come out.  When whatever criteria HTC has set happens, the slats pop out and the stall horn goes off.  Not the reverse.  

Also, whoever posted that they are supposed to come out asynchronously, they dont.  They come out at the same time on every model in AHII.  Or at least they did before the newest patch (I havent tried them since patch 2) but Pyro didnt list anything to do with the 109 slats in his release notes.
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Offline HoHun

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Re: Simultaneous invention
« Reply #88 on: November 12, 2004, 02:32:46 PM »
Hi Blogs,

>Handlye Page And a German engineer obtained patents on slats at essentially the same time. It was a case of independent invention. They cross-licensed with each other.

Actually, Gustav Lachmann got his first patent in 1917 and then was hired by Handley-Page, where he acquired a second patent in (I think) 1919. He was the inventor, but Handley-Page as his employer was the owner of the patent rights. I don't know what patents Handley-Page held before 1919, but everything seems to have been pretty typical business practice here. Aviation was an international business even back then.

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)
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Offline gripen

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109G/la-5/7 and the slats
« Reply #89 on: November 12, 2004, 03:28:32 PM »
IIRC MTT Ag paid license fees to Handley Page during war (via Switzerland or Spain or something).

gripen
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