$280 Billion, Maybe More, Was It Really Worth It?

[-MZ-]

Originally posted by NUKE
Short term, American is not any more secure due to the war in Iraq.

We are LESS secure.

The information about WMDs came from the administration, and it is obvious that they put pressure on the intelligence agencies to tell them what they wanted to hear.

[Holden McGroin]

Originally posted by -MZ-
That was not a war of choice like Iraq.

Sure it was.  We could have just forgiven Japan for it's indiscretion, and sent a diplomatic delegation to Tokyo.  Germany would not have been compelled to declare war due to the Axis agreement, and we could have stayed out of the whole thing.

[Holden McGroin]

Originally posted by Torque
Homeland Security funds distributed to each state

Wyoming leads the pack, receiving $40.60 per person while New York ranks 35th in 2004 funding at $10.03 per person.

coincidence?

You may not have seen my tongue implanted in my cheek.  I think your statisticss have to do with the $3,518 sent to Wyoming is split up among Wyoming's 837 residents.

[mars01]

You guys crack me up!

Nuke take the blinders off.

Well, I'd say it was necessary in light of what we understood at the time. I have never been upset that we have found no WMD. We did the only thing we could do given the intelligence and warnings we had received regarding Iraq. We had to take out Saddam and put end to his game.

The intelligence was not the problem it was Bush's manipulation of that intelligence and blind eye to the truth.  Hans Blix reported before we went to war that Iraq did not have WMDs.  You honestly believe our intel didn't know it.  

As for the Democracy in Iraq - can anyone say Shaw of Iran.  I hope to God that some miracle happens where the Iraq's actually are able to take control of their country and create a democracy and keep it.  History has proven this hard to do in that area.

Personally I don't think Iraq was a problem, Iran, Korea that is a different story, but now that we are over committed in Iraq, Iran and Korea get a free pass.

I just keep praying, the rest is in Gods hands now.

[SOB]

Originally posted by Holden McGroin
You may not have seen my tongue implanted in my cheek.  I think your statisticss have to do with the $3,518 sent to Wyoming is split up among Wyoming's 837 residents.

LOL

[SaburoS]

What History Will Say....
Well let's see here:
Invaded a sovereign country to find Weapons of Mass De.... oops wait, I mean ..Remove an evil Hitler-like Dictator and RESTORE democracy.
It has cost us billions of dollars and too many of our own killed. Those Iraqis that we were saving? Some innocent civillians killed (mostly collateral), but hey, it was for their own good!
they have their first elections (of US approved candidates only).
Any and all US led infrastructure improvements will continue to get attacked as they don't want to see the US programs work.
We withdraw, the UN takes over the occupation.
Situation gets too unstable, the UN withdraws.
The US approved elected officials get assassinated.
Pro US Iraqis get killed.
Theocratic govt takes over power per new free elections.
They normalize diplomatic relations with their long time enemy in Iran.
The new Govt kicks out foreign oil corporations (nationalizes the oil fields and equipment) and shut off oil exports to the US.
....and so on.

But that's okay though, because in 10-20 years time some of us will still be here on this BBS claiming that it was the commie-pinko-leftists responsible for our not winning that one ("We won every single battle, therefore we really didn't lose the War!")

End result:
Cost us billions, if not trillions of dollars. Too many of our own killed. Too many of innocent Iraqis killed. Lost a source of oil. Created a nation that just hates the USA. Hopefully they don't get so fanatic that they start bringing some attacks our way on US soil.

I'd say it wasn't worth it. History will prove me right.

[AKS\/\/ulfe]

Unfortunately the war in Iraq actually created terrorists that wouldn't have otherwise been terrorists.

Indeed - the War on Terrorism is mirroring the War on Drugs...
-SW

[Martlet]

Originally posted by SaburoS
What History Will Say....
Well let's see here:
Invaded a sovereign country to find Weapons of Mass De.... oops wait, I mean ..Remove an evil Hitler-like Dictator and RESTORE democracy.
It has cost us billions of dollars and too many of our own killed. Those Iraqis that we were saving? Some innocent civillians killed (mostly collateral), but hey, it was for their own good!
they have their first elections (of US approved candidates only).
Any and all US led infrastructure improvements will continue to get attacked as they don't want to see the US programs work.
We withdraw, the UN takes over the occupation.
Situation gets too unstable, the UN withdraws.
The US approved elected officials get assassinated.
Pro US Iraqis get killed.
Theocratic govt takes over power per new free elections.
They normalize diplomatic relations with their long time enemy in Iran.
The new Govt kicks out foreign oil corporations (nationalizes the oil fields and equipment) and shut off oil exports to the US.
....and so on.

But that's okay though, because in 10-20 years time some of us will still be here on this BBS claiming that it was the commie-pinko-leftists responsible for our not winning that one ("We won every single battle, therefore we really didn't lose the War!")

End result:
Cost us billions, if not trillions of dollars. Too many of our own killed. Too many of innocent Iraqis killed. Lost a source of oil. Created a nation that just hates the USA. Hopefully they don't get so fanatic that they start bringing some attacks our way on US soil.

I'd say it wasn't worth it. History will prove me right.

Should have just nuked it.

[Toad]

Originally posted by SOB
Toad, if Iraq can actually maintain a democratic system of government after we pull out, then I could probably stomach the bill, but do you really think that'll be the case?  

I don't know. Wish I did.

The Afghanis seemed to like the whole democratic election idea but who really knows if they'll be able to keep the ball rolling?

Remember US? Off to a great start, some really smart fellers writing the rules and we almost crashed and burned a few times too. That little Civil War thingie almost upset the applecart for sure.

Just depends on if they can see the benefits, see a different future for themselves.

If they can't, it's all been a waste.

My son has a close friend in Afghanistan right now. He just came home on his two weeks.

His comment on their future was something like.......... "3000 years and most of 'em still shirt in the streams they drink out of." (He's a medic that treats locals a lot.)

Just depends if folks can see and understand a better future for themselves and their kids.

[Pongo]

America is less safe. And if a large military is what keeps a country safe then it will be much less safe when the financial bills for the invasion and occupation of Iraq become due. Someone will have to cut. They will have to cut the military big time. They will have to cut social programs they will have to cut health care they will have to cut infastructure.

The next phase is called "Peace with Honor". No matter the president that is elected that is what will have to happen.

Really it was easily seen in advance just from what we knew of the muslim enemy. For the western military there is an objective that must be accomplished and guidlines as to what can and cannot be done to accomplish them.
For the muslim fundimentalist the objective is to fight the US.

Iraq was really the best thing that could have happend from the Muslim fundimentalist world view, american aggression, americans to kill close at hand, and access to a country they had been kept out of for decades.

It was not worth the price. It is certainly not worth the total price at the end of the story.
People that compare it to WW2 are being silly. It is much more like Vietnam in that sense. No threat to the US no support from the population, invading based on lies and staying till peace can be won with honor.

[Martlet]

Originally posted by Pongo
America is less safe. And if a large military is what keeps a country safe then it will be much less safe when the financial bills for the invasion and occupation of Iraq become due. Someone will have to cut. They will have to cut the military big time. They will have to cut social programs they will have to cut health care they will have to cut infastructure.

The next phase is called "Peace with Honor". No matter the president that is elected that is what will have to happen.

Really it was easily seen in advance just from what we knew of the muslim enemy. For the western military there is an objective that must be accomplished and guidlines as to what can and cannot be done to accomplish them.
For the muslim fundimentalist the objective is to fight the US.

Iraq was really the best thing that could have happend from the Muslim fundimentalist world view, american aggression, americans to kill close at hand, and access to a country they had been kept out of for decades.

It was not worth the price. It is certainly not worth the total price at the end of the story.
People that compare it to WW2 are being silly. It is much more like Vietnam in that sense. No threat to the US no support from the population, invading based on lies and staying till peace can be won with honor.

What price did the Canudians pay?

[Torque]

Originally posted by Holden McGroin
I think your statisticss have to do with the $3,518 sent to Wyoming is split up among Wyoming's 837 residents.

That is pure Colbert .

[deSelys]

Originally posted by Martlet
Should have just nuked it.

 








...the (final) solution was right there and we missed it!  

[Martlet]

Originally posted by deSelys




 








...the (final) solution was right there and we missed it!  

BoooHooo.  deSelys made fun of me.  BoooHooHoo

[demaw1]

YES.