My Suggestions for New Planes and Vehicles

[Angus]

Carrier-born or rocket-launced Hurry IIC not armed well enough?

[Karnak]

Originally posted by Angus
Carrier-born or rocket-launced Hurry IIC not armed well enough?

I don't think they were Mk IIcs.  I think they were surplus Hurricane Mk Is with eight .303s.

[Angus]

The Condors were being used in the anti-shipping strikes for many years in the N-Atlantic as far as I know.

Anyway, the 8x303 was plenty...if one got close enough...as proved in the BoB

[Rafe35]

Grumman F4F-3 Wildcat
Grumman F6F-3 Hellcat
Hawker Sea Hurricane Mk. IIB

The Vought F4U-1A Corsair can wait later.

[DC1]

This is my list

Italian plane:
Macchi c200, S79, CZ 1007
French plane:
MS 406, De520,LeO451
German plane:
He 111H3, Ju52, HS129
GB plane:
Blenheim IV,Swordfish I,Beaufighter VI
US plane:
P39n,B25c/h/j,P38f/j,B17F,TBD Devastator
Japan plane:
Ki43 III,Ki 44III,Ki 21,G3m3,G4m4.

DC 4°stormo F.B.

[DC1]

I forgott russian plane:
I 16,Mig3 or Lagg3,Yak 1,Pe2,Il4,Tu2
Wellington III for Bomber Command.
DC

[HoHun]

Hi Angus,

>The Condors were being used in the anti-shipping strikes for many years in the N-Atlantic as far as I know.

The fighter threat forced them to abandon strikes, actually, and they were predominantly used as reconnaissance platforms for the u-boats.

>Anyway, the 8x303 was plenty...if one got close enough...as proved in the BoB

As pointed out above, the Condors were often chased off but seldom shot down. Despite fairly low production numbers, the type was in continous operation for several years.

Eric Brown certainly respected the Fw 200, and he was one of the Martlet pilots slugging it out with them :-)

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)

[Guppy35]

Originally posted by gear
how bout the condore

Most definately not a Condor.  Note the 6 engines, not the 4 of the condor.  Note the lack of the ventral tub that held the gunners.  Note the lack of single vertical tail.

It looks similar to a Junkers 290 except it has 6 engines.

Dan/Slack

[Meyer]

Originally posted by Guppy35

It looks similar to a Junkers 290 except it has 6 engines.

 

Exactly, and that was called "Ju390"

[Guppy35]

Originally posted by Karnak
I don't think they were Mk IIcs.  I think they were surplus Hurricane Mk Is with eight .303s.

A couple of the Spit XII pilots I got to know and learned about flew tours with the MSFU (Merchant Shipping Fighter Unit)

I have the logbook of one of them who was with the RCAF.  He had numerous practice launches and one launch off the Empire Stanley

This page is from that logbook.  After he finished with 416 Squadron and prior to joining 41 Squadron on Spit XIIs, he flew for a year with MSFU, April 42 to April 43.

They had Hurri Is.  His logbook lists the serials of all the ones he flew during that year so I could probably make a pretty good list.  He also pasted in a newpaper mention of the MSFU with the photo of a mounted Hurri on a Freighter.  Note above the photo the listing the the Hurri I's he was flying for MSFU in April 1943

Dan/Slack

[Guppy35]

Day off today so I had some fun with the RCAF pilot's logbook.  These are the Hurricanes he flew during his year with MSFU from April 42-April 43.  Turns out he went on 6 convoys and was launched 3 times.  (I hadn't really paid much attention to that part of his logbook as my main interest was his Spit XII flying)

Only one Hurricane IIB shows up and he only flew it once for an hour.  His launches were all Hurricane Is along with everything else he flew.  6 of the serials lack a letter prefix so I don't know for sure which Hurris they were.

Speke was the MSFU Base in England,
Gibralter was the MSFU base in the Med
Dartmouth was the MSFU Base in Nova Scotia, Canada.

So far I determined that Empire Stanley was sunk later in the war. Not sure on the other two ID'd ships.

Dan/Slack

Model   Serial Number   Location   Notes
Hurricane I   2647   Speke   
Hurricane I   3273   Speke   
Hurricane I   3710   Gibralter   
Hurricane I   7647   Gibralter   
Hurricane I   8810   Speke   
Hurricane I   9310   Speke   
Hurricane I   AG130   Speke   
Hurricane I   AG211   Speke   
Hurricane I   AG224   Speke   
Hurricane I   AG281   Speke   
Hurricane I   BW881   Dartmouth   
Hurricane I   BW884   Dartmouth   
Hurricane IIB   J3318   Gibralter   
Hurricane I   N2647   Speke   
Hurricane I   P2488   Speke   
Hurricane I   P3868   Speke   
Hurricane I   P5194   Gibralter   
Hurricane I   P5209   Speke   
Hurricane I   P7166   Speke   
Hurricane I   P9155   Speke   
Hurricane I   T9526   Gibralter        Launch from Empire Clive 8/2/42 to Gibralter
Hurricane I   V6696   Speke   
Hurricane I   V6732   Speke   
Hurricane I   V6759   Speke       Launch from Empire Darwin 2/17/43 to Ayr-Speke
Hurricane I   V6858   Speke   
Hurricane I   V6858   Dartmouth       Launch from Empire Stanley 6/6/42 to Speke
Hurricane I   V7048   Speke   
Hurricane I   V7162   Speke   
Hurricane I   V7166   Speke   
Hurricane I   V7172   Speke   
Hurricane I   V7439   Dartmouth   
Hurricane I   V7464   Speke   
Hurricane I   V7870   Gibralter   
Hurricane I   W9128   Speke   
Hurricane I   W9218   Speke   
Hurricane I   Z4875   Gibralter   
Hurricane I   Z4933   Speke   
Hurricane I   Z4935   Speke   

Convoys
England to Canada-April 15, 1942- May 6, 1942.
Canada to England-May 19, 1942-June 5, 1942.     Empire Stanley, Hurricane I V6858
England to Gibralter-July 6, 1942-August 1, 1942.  Empire Clive, Hurricane I T9526
Gibralter to England-September 15, 1942-October 19, 1942.
England to Gibralter-December 12, 1942-January 26, 1943.
Gibralter to England-February 2, 1943-February 16, 1943.  Empire Darwin, Hurricane I V6759

And interesting combat report on a Hurri I off the Empire Darwin vs a FW200

http://www.south-lancs-aviation.co.uk/MSFU%20280343.htm

Image of Empire Darwin
http://www.wwiitechpubs.info/dock/nv-ship-types/images/nv-ship-types-empire-darwin.jpg

[Zanth]

Originally posted by gear
how bout the condore

Junkers Ju 390

Type: Long Range Bomber or Reconnaissance aircraft.
Origin: Junkers Flugzeug und Motorenwerke AG
Models: V1 to V3 and A-1
Crew: N/A
First Flight: Prototypes only
Final Delivery: None
Number Produced: V1 and V2 Only

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Engine:
Model: BMW 801E
Type: 18-Cylinder two-row radial
Number: Six       Horsepower: 1,970 hp

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dimensions:
Wing span: 165 ft. 1 in. (50.30m)
Length: 112 ft. 2.5 in. (34.20m)
Height: 22 ft. 7 in. (6.89m)
Wing Surface Area: N/A

Weights:
Empty: 81,350 lb. (36,900 kg)
Loaded: 166,448 lb. (75,500 kg)
   Performance:
Maximum Speed:
    Clean: 314 mph (505 kph)
    With Max. Eternal Weapons: 267 mph (430 kph)
Initial Climb: N/A
Service Ceiling (Typical): N/A
Range in Recce configuration:
    6,027 miles (9700 km)
Endurance in Recce configuration: 32 Hours

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Armament:
Eight 20mm MG 151.
Eight 13mm MG 131.

Payload:
Transport (V1): 22,046 lb. (10,000 kg)
Bomber (V3): 3,968 lb. (1800 kg)

Avionics:
FuG 200 Hohentwiel Radar.
 


What you want instead is this

The first Me 264 prototype.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Type: Ultra Long Range Bomber
Origin: Messerschmitt AG
Engines:
Four 1,700 hp BMW 801D or G 18-cylinder radials

Dimensions:
Span: 43m
Length: 20.90m Height: 4.30m

 Weights:
Empty 46,627lb.
Max. Loaded 123,460lb.
Performance:
Max. Speed: 565km/h (351mph)
Max range at 217mph 9,321 miles

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Comments
The Me 264 was designed from the begining as an 'Amerika' bomber. It's goal was to be able to carry a small load to the United States and return or a heavier load and ditch at sea and the crew picked up by U-boat.
The first prototype flew in December 1942, but soon allied presure forced Messerschmitt to slow development and the prototypes were eventaullay destroyed by Allied bombing.

[HoHun]

Hi Guppy,

>And interesting combat report on a Hurri I off the Empire Darwin vs a FW200

>http://www.south-lancs-aviation.co.uk/MSFU%20280343.htm

Quite puzzling with regard to the white flash - doesn't sound like fuel, perhaps he set off an ammunition box?

I'm surprised that the Condor didn't go straight down after receiving the five-second-burst - that's like 800 rounds from 300 yards. Of course, not all of that hit, but still ...

It's also interesting that the Hurricane guns failed after 5.5 s of firing - it should have more ammunition than that. Maybe it took a hit in the pneumatic trigger system? Since the Hurricane was lost (or rather, disposed of on purpose), that wouldn't be uncovered like on a normal fighter sortie.

Thanks, that was a great read! :-)

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)

[Guppy35]

Originally posted by HoHun
Hi Guppy,

>And interesting combat report on a Hurri I off the Empire Darwin vs a FW200

>http://www.south-lancs-aviation.co.uk/MSFU%20280343.htm

Quite puzzling with regard to the white flash - doesn't sound like fuel, perhaps he set off an ammunition box?

I'm surprised that the Condor didn't go straight down after receiving the five-second-burst - that's like 800 rounds from 300 yards. Of course, not all of that hit, but still ...

It's also interesting that the Hurricane guns failed after 5.5 s of firing - it should have more ammunition than that. Maybe it took a hit in the pneumatic trigger system? Since the Hurricane was lost (or rather, disposed of on purpose), that wouldn't be uncovered like on a normal fighter sortie.

Thanks, that was a great read! :-)

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)

Could be the Hurri was just worn out too.  A Hurri I still in combat in August 43.  Talk about war weary.  Throw in the stress from the catapault launch on an airframe not really meant for that and it's amazing they flew at all

Dan/Slack

[MiloMorai]

A pic of the Empire Darwin.