Author Topic: Q: Sinking CV (Read 1006 times)

ramzey · « **on:** October 28, 2004, 01:27:21 AM »

Just courious
why CV can be sink by single strafing bf110 , no bombs
just gunfire?
thats kind a weird for carrier to be sunk by 20-30 mm rounds

ramzey

piercer · « **Reply #1 on:** October 31, 2004, 04:28:00 AM »

lol..I thought it was easy when shooting it down with my baby N1K. But, it was most likely really soft from other players bomb hits, and you finished the job.

BenDover · « **Reply #2 on:** October 31, 2004, 08:05:07 AM »

I just did some testing offline with a 110 (4 20mm [1150 round] & 2 30mm [255 rounds])

I can kill a CA in 1 pass taking less than 206 20mm & 88 30mm
I can kill a CV in 4 passes taking less than 924 20mm + 255 30mm, this means that just 4 110s can take 1 pass each and kill it. They would proburly have enough spare ammo to kill the CA aswell.

lasersailor184 · « **Reply #3 on:** October 31, 2004, 10:35:42 AM »

You realize how damaging 4x924 20mm's are? Added onto that 4x255 30mm's are?

However, I agree that this shouldn't sink a CV. But, I would like to make it cease all operations. A CV that just got strafed by 4 110's won't be sinking, but it sure as hell won't be launching planes.

Elfie · « **Reply #4 on:** October 31, 2004, 03:02:54 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by lasersailor184
You realize how damaging 4x924 20mm's are? Added onto that 4x255 30mm's are?

However, I agree that this shouldn't sink a CV. But, I would like to make it cease all operations. A CV that just got strafed by 4 110's won't be sinking, but it sure as hell won't be launching planes.

Do you realize how hard Carriers were to sink? There was a post about this in the general AH forum, someone posted just what it took to sink a carrier.

With that said, no capital ship should be sank merely by strafing with aircraft guns. Capital ships were just to big and aircraft guns alone would not have been able to sink them.

lasersailor184 · « **Reply #5 on:** October 31, 2004, 05:10:31 PM »

Read much? Did I anywhere in that single post say that 110's should be able to sink a carrier...

BenDover · « **Reply #6 on:** October 31, 2004, 05:25:14 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by lasersailor184
You realize how damaging 4x924 20mm's are? Added onto that 4x255 30mm's are?

Yeah, enough to kill 4 CVs, and possibly 4 CAs

lasersailor184 · « **Reply #7 on:** November 01, 2004, 12:04:57 AM »

I meant outside of this game.

bozon · « **Reply #8 on:** November 01, 2004, 03:08:56 AM »

30mm would only leave scratches on the hull of even a small ship. The scratches would lead to corosion which would slowly, but surely, lead to the sinking of the ship.

Bozon

flakbait · « **Reply #9 on:** November 01, 2004, 03:53:47 AM »

Said it once, I'll say it again...

Ships need their own armor model ala Gv armor modeling to be realistic. Currently a single P-38 can de-ack half the fleet in two firing passes, and a Bf-110G packing spud guns and bombs can sink any ship in one pass. It's a serious oversight that's never been tackled, though I suspect 2.01 will at least address the AA guns on ships being made of balsa wood.

-----------------------
Flakbait [Delta6]

JB14 · « **Reply #10 on:** November 01, 2004, 12:28:47 PM »

I dont think u realize how much dammage 30mills would do to a ship yet alone 4 more 20 mils. 30mils would burn a hole in a ship, maybe from the side but shurly from the top. 30 is a small cannon not a mg. Concentrated 30mils would sure as heck almost completly cripple a cv. IMHO....

JB14 · « **Reply #11 on:** November 01, 2004, 12:40:46 PM »

and as for a "small ship" same, if not more effective.

Pongo · « **Reply #12 on:** November 01, 2004, 12:52:39 PM »

Unless it hit a fueled up or bombed up plane or planes the full broadside of a 110 would not do anything but kill exposed crew members and break windows.
You could as easly say that sprinkling small grenades over the lenght of a carrier would destroy it.
If it was so easy to kill capital ships then the outcome of ww2 would have been signifigantly different, the weapons developed would have been signifiganlty different.
Weapons made to hurt aircraft covered with only 5mm aluminum over most of thier airframes will not hurt ships covered with 15mm of steel over even their weakest points.
15mm of steel would be considered an exceptional level of protection on an aircraft. On a ship it doenst even count as armour.
And strafing down the length of a cv deck will kill almost no gun crews. the gun crews are below the flight deck level in metal gun pits.

Furball · « **Reply #13 on:** November 01, 2004, 01:07:57 PM »

i may be wrong.. but wasn't the essex class cv's deck made of wood?

I remember reading that during the kamikaze attacks, the US Navy cv's suffered badly because of their wooden decks, the kamikaze aircraft would smash straight through into the lower levels. Whereas the British armoured flight decks would simply bounce the kamikaze off, bit of sweeping up and were still operational.

My point being.. wooden deck + 20mm + 30mm = bad!

may not sink a ship but would make for some nasty splinters.

Captain Virgil Hilts · « **Reply #14 on:** November 01, 2004, 02:15:36 PM »

Well, the 110 has cannons, but they ain't GAU-8 30MM cannons, meaning they won't cut armored ships to pieces.

They might rip up the wooden decks of warships, but they ain't gonna sink them or put them out of action, with the exception of POSSIBLY tearing up the flight deck on a CV, but to do that you'd have to be in harms way a long time to put enough ammo on the deck to hurt it. With AA guns on you at close range and you trying to concentrate on the deck to tear it up, you'd likely last about 15 seconds.

Were you able to catch planes on the flight deck en masse and set them on fire, you might set a CV on fire and knock it out.

There's no way that strafing with a couple of 110's is going to knock out all the AA guns, much less sink warships. The proper use for planes like the 110 against shipping is supply ships. Unless you want to bring large bombs.

On the other hand a 1K# bomb in the right place will knock a CV out of action. Put one or two on the flight deck and it won't be launching or landing planes for a while, the deck will be wrecked, and the hangar deck and other areas may be on fire for a long time. Not to mention that you might be able to blow the elevators out of the wells.

Fire was the main enemy of the CV, they were tall enough that a bomb would be hard pressed to pierce its way through the keel. Torpedoes on the other hand are a different story. But surviving a torpedo run long enough to get hits on a CV is tough. Perhaps it would be possible to have torpedo bomber formations, so that two or three people could put 6-9 torpedo bombers into play against a CV.