trim, trim trim (grrrrrrrr!)

[Duckwing6]

yea makes sense... guess after rereading some of the above we were kindda trying to say the same thing  

[Andy Bush]

OK!! It seems we've got things back on an even keel!

So I'm left with the question of "What's the point?" with regard to how trim is modeled in this sim. All of this discussion seems to have led to these ideas:

1.  Trim is not a primary flight control. It is a secondary flight control intended to assist the pilot in holding the flight controls in a particular position...this is necessary due to the airloads on the flight control surface (aileron, elevator, rudder) in flight.

2.  Although unconfirmed by AH (and unmentioned in AH documentation), some experienced AH pilots believe that a trimmed aircraft will enjoy an energy advantage over a similar, but untrimmed, aircraft. The example given is a comparison of turn rates in a sustained turn.

3.  This 'energy advantage' has not been shown to exist in a RL situation, and no aerodynamic proof has been offered to confirm this.

It seems only right that we put this puppy to bed once and for all. After all is said and done, it doesn't matter if this trim advantage is aerodynamically correct, nor does it matter how RL aircraft are flown in BFM. It only matters how AH pilots fly AH aircraft.

Therefore, we should expect AH to provide some documentation, however brief, on this subject...if only to keep the playing field level.

Andy

[juzz]

Problem with AH trim is that it DOES reduce maximum control surface deflection if you are trimmed fully in the opposite direction. Use the external view while stationary on the runway to see for yourself.

[Toad]

oooooooooooooooooh!

DON'T like THAT!

Thx, Juzz...will take a look at this.

Unless they are modeling that us weak sisters can't fully overcome a trim tab  

[Andy Bush]

Me either!

I just looked at it...and for sure, the elevator has a greater deflection when fully trimmed 'nose up'...that may well account for the increased performance that some report.

The only problem is that this is not how it works in real life!

So be it. We've talked this to death. Pilots...be advised...to get max performance in AH, trim your stick 'nose up' when honking on the pole. It may not be realistic...but what the hell...a kill is a kill.

Andy

[This message has been edited by Andy Bush (edited 07-25-2000).]

[Rickenbacker]

 

Originally posted by Vati66:
But what is auto trim?  and is there a way to set somthing like a macro for trim setting for differint situations?

Auto trim is what you referred to as the "autopilot". AH doesn't have an autopilot as such, but the various X modes lets the game set the trim for you to keep the plane at a certain angle of attack or speed. This can also be achieved by hand using the manual trim keys (I and K for elevator, J and L for rudder and M and . for ailerons).

I have the elevator and ailerons mapped to a hat on my stick, so that I can trim for a dive in combat, and quickly readjust for a zoom climb so I don't have to heave back on the stick with all my might. When strafing you also have to trim, or use the pedals, to keep the ball in the middle, or your aim will be off.

Trim isn't all that useful for maneuvering in combat, but setting it right (i.e. for the speed you'll be using in the fight) helps relieve some stick pressure, and makes it easier to fly and aim.

It's generally easier to pull on the stick than to push when aiming, so I set my elevator trim to pull the nose down a tiny bit when shooting, or preferably to eliminate all stick forces. This ensures that the bullets go where the sight is pointing, more or less.

Rickenbacker

[Skraut]

I've been buffing a while, and just new to fighters and dealing with torque.  I haven't tried it yet, but was just wondering if draining fuel first from one of the wing tanks to make it lighter and the other heavier would help offset torque without the need for a lot of trimming.

I know it's probably much easier to use the tabs (that's why they are there in the firs place) just wondering if anyone does this, or something else to counter torque in a different method

[easymo]

"trim is not much use in comebat". I would have to strongly disagree,rick. I have all 6 directions mapped to my main buttons. I have my fingers danceing on them all through a fight. Plus the flaps. This game is trimming and shooting.

[Rickenbacker]

Well, easymo, it _shouldn't_ be dammit  .

IRL I use trim only so I don't have to hold the stick forward manually during aerotow, then after that I trim the plane to fly 90 km/h (the most efficient speed in that plane, i.e. max distance for min sink) and don't touch it until it's time to land, when I usually trim the nose down a bit since it's hard to maintain speed with airbrakes out.

I can still get full control surface deflection, though, however the trim is set. I know that's not how WB worked, but I'm not sure about AH. You should be able to fly the same without trim changes.

In spite of all the above, though, I do use trim in combat, but not to fly the plane, only to minimize the forces I have to apply to the stick (makes it easier to aim, and I sorely need some help there  ).

Rickenbacker