Author Topic: Sadam and Terrorism  (Read 883 times)

Offline Gunslinger

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Sadam and Terrorism
« on: October 31, 2004, 01:57:36 AM »
It angers me when I hear people say "Sadam had no ties to Al Queada"  In some ways this has been proven true (no operational ties) but in others it is entirely misleading.  The main reason this bothers me is because that is a very narrow minded tunnled visioned way to look at him.  

Is AQ the only terrorist network out there?  Is that our ONLY goal, to rid the world of AQ?  Is this not the "War on TERRORISM"  not the "war on Al Queada"?

I've been saying this all along that Sadam had many ties to terrorism even if the 911 comission report doesnt want to mention it.  So who knows in hindsite what he would have done.

I did however, stumble apon a really good website that explains in great detail (pictures included :D ) about Sadam's ties to terror!

http://www.husseinandterror.com/

Offline Gunslinger

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Sadam and Terrorism
« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2004, 11:17:12 AM »
I thaught this was an interesting read and very well put together/documented.  Surprised no one wants to respond to it.

Especially the haters that want to call this an "unjustified/ilegal war"

Offline DREDIOCK

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Sadam and Terrorism
« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2004, 12:00:24 PM »
I dont care what the Bloggers complain about it. This is a damn good Ad

Whatever it takes
Death is no easy answer
For those who wish to know
Ask those who have been before you
What fate the future holds
It ain't pretty

Offline VOR

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Sadam and Terrorism
« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2004, 01:17:24 PM »
This is and always has been common knowledge. I really don't understand why people insist any link to terrorism must involve OBL directly.

Ya know, Gunslinger..what will really bake their noodles (the anti Iraq war crowd) is when they discover Iraq is only the second performance of a world tour.

Offline vorticon

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Sadam and Terrorism
« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2004, 01:23:10 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by VOR
This is and always has been common knowledge. I really don't understand why people insist any link to terrorism must involve OBL directly.

Ya know, Gunslinger..what will really bake their noodles (the anti Iraq war crowd) is when they discover Iraq is only the second performance of a world tour.


im sure noone has a problem with chechnya...

Offline Eagler

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Sadam and Terrorism
« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2004, 01:26:35 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by VOR
This is and always has been common knowledge. I really don't understand why people insist any link to terrorism must involve OBL directly.

Ya know, Gunslinger..what will really bake their noodles (the anti Iraq war crowd) is when they discover Iraq is only the second performance of a world tour.


if we'd caught OBl and had not invaded Iraq with the intel which showed him to have wmd's, his willingness to use them and his known hatred for the US, the handsomehunkcrats this election would be crying that Bush is weak for NOT invading Iraq and that skerry will lead us to victory over that master mind of terror Saddam as he has "a plan".

it isn't what we have done right, it is how they spin everything ala the micheal moore-on mindset and his following - to the point they use his horse crap in election ads for skerry

sad, really -  that such a huge portion of this great countries population is dumber than a fresh pile of dog dung ........... but it is also very funny too

:lol :lol :lol
LOL LOL LOL

LANDSLIDE BUSH!!!




:)
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Offline Elfie

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Sadam and Terrorism
« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2004, 01:28:48 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Gunslinger
I thaught this was an interesting read and very well put together/documented.  Surprised no one wants to respond to it.

Especially the haters that want to call this an "unjustified/ilegal war"


The *haters* most likely wont respond because it shows the war was justified. Granted, links to Al-Qaeda are minor but links to other terrorist organizations are not. This is a war on terror, not just a war on Al-Qaeda.
Corkyjr on country jumping:
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Offline Elfie

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Sadam and Terrorism
« Reply #7 on: October 31, 2004, 01:30:13 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by vorticon
im sure noone has a problem with chechnya...


One step at a time......
Corkyjr on country jumping:
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Offline Maniac

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Sadam and Terrorism
« Reply #8 on: October 31, 2004, 01:37:50 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Elfie
The *haters* most likely wont respond because it shows the war was justified. Granted, links to Al-Qaeda are minor but links to other terrorist organizations are not. This is a war on terror, not just a war on Al-Qaeda.


Where are the WMD?
Warbirds handle : nr-1 //// -nr-1- //// Maniac

Offline VOR

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Sadam and Terrorism
« Reply #9 on: October 31, 2004, 01:41:03 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Maniac
Where are the WMD?


Dunno. If you hear something through the grapevine, let us know. We've been looking everywhere for those pesky things!

Offline Elfie

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Sadam and Terrorism
« Reply #10 on: October 31, 2004, 01:42:59 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Maniac
Where are the WMD?


WMD was NEVER the only reason the US invaded Iraq.

*edit* Why dont you try a google search for *Iraq, WMD, unaccounted for*.
Corkyjr on country jumping:
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Offline Maniac

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Sadam and Terrorism
« Reply #11 on: October 31, 2004, 01:44:30 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Elfie
WMD was NEVER the only reason the US invaded Iraq.


It was the reason that justified the war.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2004, 01:47:29 PM by Maniac »
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Offline Torque

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Sadam and Terrorism
« Reply #12 on: October 31, 2004, 01:46:09 PM »
"The United States is the most generous in granting immunity to itself and partial immunity to its servants, and the most laggard in adhering to international treaties (ratifying the Genocide Convention only in 1988 and signing the Covenant on Civil and Political Rights only in 1992). And the provisions of the Rome Statute, which would expose Kissinger to dire punishment if they had been law from as early as 1968, are not retroactive. The Nuremberg principles, however, were in that year announced by an international convention to have no statute of limitations. International customary law would allow any signatory country (again exempting the United States) to bring suit against Kissinger for crimes against humanity in Indochina.

More importantly, United States federal courts have been found able to exercise jurisdiction over crimes such as assassination, kidnapping, and terrorism, even when these are supposedly protected by the doctrine of state or sovereign immunity. Of a number of landmark cases, the most salient one is the finding of the DC Circuit Court in 1980, concerning the car-bomb murder, by Pinochet's agents, of Orlando Letelier and Ronni Mofffitt. The court held that "[w]hatever policy options may exist for a foreign country," the Pinochet regime "has no 'discretion' to perpetrate conduct designed to result in the assassination of an individual or individuals, action that is clearly contrary to the precepts of humanity as recognized in both national and international law." Reciprocally speaking, this would apply to an American official seeking to assassinate a Chilean. Assassination was illegal both as a private and a public act when Henry Kissinger was in power and when the attacks on General Schneider of Chile and President Makarios of Cyprus took place.

As the Hinchey report to Congress in 2000 now demonstrates that US government agents were knowingly party to acts of torture, murder, and "disappearance" by Pinochet's death squads, Chilean citizens will be able to bring suit in America under the Alien Tort Claims Act, which grants US federal courts "subject-matter jurisdiction" over a claim when a non-US citizen sues for a civil wrong committed in violation of a US treaty or other international law. Chilean relatives of the "disappeared" and of General Schneider have recently expressed a,1 interest in doing so, and I am advised by several international lawyers that Henry Kissinger would indeed be liable under such proceedings.

The Alien Tort Claims Act would also permit victims in other countries, such as Bangladesh or Cambodia, to seek damages from Kissinger, on the model of the recent lawsuit held in New York against Li Peng, among the Chinese Communist officials most accountable for the 1989 massacre in Tiananmen Square.

A significant body of legal theory can be brought to bear on the application of "customary law" to the bombardment of civilians in Indochina. The Genocide Convention was not ratified by the United States until 1988. In 1951, however, it was declared by the International Court of Justice to be customary international law. The work of the International Law Commission is in full agreement with this view. There would be argument over whether the numberless victims were a "protected group" under existing law, and also as to whether their treatment was sufficiently indiscriminate, but such argument would place heavy burdens on the defense as well as the prosecution.

An important recent development is the enforcement by third countries - notably Spain - of the international laws that bind all states. Baltasar Garzon, the Spanish judge who initiated the successful prosecution of General Pinochet, has also secured the detention in Mexico of the Argentine torturer Ricardo Miguel Cavallo, who is now held in prison awaiting extradition. The parliament of Belgium has recently empowered Belgian courts to exercise jurisdiction over war crimes and breaches of the Geneva Convention committed anywhere in the world by a citizen of any country. This practice, which is on the increase, has at minimum the effect of limiting the ability of certain people to travel or to avoid extradition. The Netherlands, Switzerland, Denmark, and Germany have all recently employed the Geneva Conventions to prosecute war criminals for actions committed against non-nationals by non-nationals. The British House of Lords decision in the matter of Pinochet has also decisively negated the defense of "sovereign immunity" for acts committed by a government or by those following a government's orders. This has led in turn to Pinochet's prosecution in his own country.

There remains the question of American law. Kissinger himself admit that he knowingly broke the law in continuing to supply American weapons to Indonesia, which in turn used them to violate the neutrality of a neighboring territory and to perpetrate gross crimes against humanity. Kissinger also faces legal trouble over his part in the ethnic cleansing of the British colonial island of Diego Garcia in the early 1970s, when indigenous inhabitants were displaced to make room for a United States military base. Lawyers for the Chagos Islanders have already won a judgment in the British courts on this matter, which now moves to a hearing in the United States. The torts cited are "forced relocation, torture, and genocide."

In this altered climate, the United States faces an interesting dilemma. At any moment, one of its most famous citizens may be found liable for terrorist actions under the Alien Tort Claims Act, or may be subject to an international request for extradition, or may be arrested if he travels to a foreign country, or may be cited for crimes against humanity by a court in an allied nation. The non-adherence by the United States to certain treaties and its reluctance to extradite make it improbable that American authorities would cooperate with such actions, though this would gravely undermine the righteousness with which Washington addresses other nations on the subject of human rights. There is also the option of bringing Kissinger to justice in an American court with an American prosecutor. Again the contingency seems a fantastically remote one, but, again, the failure to do so would expose the country to a much more obvious charge of double standards than would have been apparent even two years ago.

The burden therefore rests with the American legal community and with the American human-rights lobbies and non-governmental organizations. They can either persist in averting their gaze from the egregious impunity enjoyed by a notorious war criminal and lawbreaker, or they can become seized by the exalted standards to which they continually hold everyone else. The current state of suspended animation, however, cannot last. If the courts and lawyers of this country will not do their duty, we shall watch as the victims and survivors of this man pursue justice and vindication in their own dignified and painstaking way, and at their own expense, and we shall be put to shame."

Christopher Hitchens

Offline Gunslinger

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Sadam and Terrorism
« Reply #13 on: October 31, 2004, 01:47:12 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Maniac
Where are the WMD?


Wouldnt 500 tons of anything qualify as a stockpile.  Well how about 500 metric tons of Uranium.  Enough to make 142 atomic weapons.

But by your lack of omission you agree then that Saddam had real ties to terrorism?

Offline Elfie

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Sadam and Terrorism
« Reply #14 on: October 31, 2004, 01:49:01 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Maniac
It was the reason that justified the war.


It was only one reason that justified the war, supporting terrorism was another.
Corkyjr on country jumping:
In the end you should be thankful for those players like us who switch to try and help keep things even because our willingness to do so, helps a more selfish, I want it my way player, get to fly his latewar uber ride.